Just because I’m now a mum, am I really worth $90,000 less?

I’ve seen Alice present.
She’s worth at least $110k + super + annual bonus!

it seems to me that you’ve been contacted by bad recruiters, rather than downgraded by the industry. I encourage you to see through the bad contact you’ve had and continue to believe in the vastly improved attitudes towards & conditions for returning parents among the majority of agency leaders and managers. (certainly within the creative agencies and consultancies that my company works with)

I own a recruitment business, albeit not one that offers entry level positions at all and certainly not to candidates with 14 years experience. But I do know that there are plenty of recruiters out there…be they working for an agency/company or at a recruitment specialist who are spamming candidates and offering lots of jobs to lots of people and hoping something will stick. Just like on the few occasions when we post ads on Mumbrella or linkedin, we receive dozens of completely inappropriate applications from desperate and delusional candidates

I don’t disagree with the bullet points you outline in your article and I 100% agree with and support your and any candidate’s determination to protect and build on their achievements, experience and status. And it’s my experience that most good companies and the (hopefully good) recruiters who help them, believe the same

all the best finding a fantastic role

I can only assume that you are suggesting that Alice take the pay cut. Pretty sure Alice wasn’t on $20,000 + bonus + super annually when she left News Corp. Alice has an influential voice, presents at major tech summits and has been in the industry for 17 years…

I think you’re the kind of recruiter she is trying to avoid.

Whoosh,,,,

Really! A few dodgy job opps from LinkedIn, and bash the whole industry for not hiring you after “stepping away for 12 months??

Someone of your professional standard should be on the books of top-end recruiters for a start. Where the clients who need your experience go for experienced staff.
It’s not Europe or the USA – it’s a small Media world here. Step out and you’ll fall off the tiny wheel. Chance of getting back on from a few lines on LinkedIn are slim.

There also seems to be an extraordinary reality-disconnect about the number of jobs available in Australia at almost every level.

Wow.. Did you even read the article? Otherwise you are terrible at maths..?

This would read the same way if the content was:

“17yrs in the industry and recruiters weren’t polite enough to take into consider my personal situations and they were rude enough to offer me jobs where travel would be involved and I wouldn’t be able to take care of my little one..”

Its all well and good to call me an entitled whinger when you’re safe behind your anonymous name! Happy to have a proper discussion about this if any of the commenters are brave enough to step out from behind their secret profile… It is an issue (you just need to read the comments on LinkedIn to see how many women this has impacted) and for you to dismiss it as me having a whinge or throwing a tanty, only proves my point.

Reflects the current state of recruitment companies. Chance their arm that someone will say yes and then an easy placement for them.

Recruiters need to significantly increase their accountability around placement, I had to block Digital Gurus on LinkedIn as their jobs adverts are just ridiculous, everyone is a unicorn and every company is a hyper growth one.

Until you have actually worked in the industry give those who have and are looking for opportunities the time of day

It’s absolutely not a case of damned either way. It’s a case of presumption and ignoring skills.
Some women come back and want the same roles, some want it easier, as a recruiter it is a clear part of your job to make sure that the role you are discussing is right for the person (regardless of gender).

If a man took a year off to look after his child, few if any recruiters would expect him to want an easier role, and to presume that way about women is terrible.

I’m with you Nick Williams, I’d suggest that the influx of inexperienced (particularly in digital) recruiters in a mature market is the problem. Alice, I’m sure that your own Network will deliver what you need. It also seems that there is a desperate need for educating young Males in general.

I wish you luck in your next exciting venture, particularly now you have another fantastic skill set you ad to your already outstanding accomplishments.

Sue

Agree with nick. My first thought was that’s terrible.. my second thought was clearly she has been approached by sub par recruiters trying to hit their monthly KPIs.

I don’t have a secret profile

I disagree. It seems based on the information that the issue is around unconscious bias of the recruiter who was making the assumptions. We make presumptions about each other everyday, I am almost certain you are making some about me as you read this.

You have made the presumption that a man would be treated differently by a recruiter. I’d argue that’s lack of appropriate training, not an example of systemic gender inequality.

But since we are playing hypothetical’s, if a male coming off of paternity leave wrote this article and the recruiters in question were all female, I’d argue the reaction would not be as strong and the ripples not go as far.

And I thank you for that! I agree with your comment – they were bad recruiters, but this is also part of a wider problem that has impacted so many other women. I wasn’t really proactive in finding a job (yet) but many women out there have been looking for months or years, only to receive the same treatment. Whilst this is my personal story, I wanted to raise this for all mothers returning to work.
Thanks again for your comment Nick.

Oh, the reaction from recruiters to this article!! It says much more about themselves than it does Alice, that is for sure. Recruitment as an industry needs to take a good hard look at itself – its now run by jumped up self labelled entrepreneurs with an absolutely minimum cost of entry and a mission to spend their days on LinkedIn luring targets merely to fulfil their sales targets.

Alice: you won’t know who I am as I’m going anonymous here, but you are a fantastic operator (not that I need to tell you that) with a formidable reputation and there is just no doubt your re entry into the scene will be an amazing get for the company that grants you that.

Yep this rings true. I’ve been approached recently about roles that are my level, but as soon as the recruiter hears I’ve just had a baby, they immediately go cool on the “exciting opportunity” and start backing out…lots of travel you won’t want…it’s full time so it won’t suit…etc etc. Stop assuming and ask the candidate if they are keen or not. Everyone is different. It’s pretty simple.

This is not even just recruiters. Companies are actually asking for extended years of LOCAL experience for a mid-senior job. Coming back to Australia, I’ve had so many companies reject my application because I had no local experience (apparently years of successfully leading teams in other countries doesn’t matter), it is ridiculous. The hiring process and talent vetting in this country are so backward and discriminatory. You’d see junior and mid-senior roles (like Social Media Manager, Strategist) on LinkedIn with applicants who have MBAs and PhDs. You will only end up with people being overqualified and stuck in jobs where they cannot make the best impact on the organisation. What a waste of talent.

There are so many dodgy recruiters in this industry. I never apply to jobs listed by recruitment agencies or reply to their messages – usually you can use the info in their description to find the original job posting by the actual company, and apply directly without the rude, scammy middlemen.

Alice, I feel your pain. However I’ve had similar experiences after redundancy and am not a mother – so I wonder if this is the current job market and not solely an issue for mothers. I’ve taken a $50,000 pay cut in the last year to get a full-time job.

As someone who knows Alice personally I can attest to her abilities.

What I am disappointed about with this piece though is that I think it incorrectly points the finger at the industry, when in actual fact what you have here is very bad recruiters, which unfortunately plagues many industries right now.

It is a great example of how misguided the ‘gender pay gap’ discussion is, it always takes a very high level approach instead of getting in to the finer details, in this case we have bad recruiters who have no idea who they are talking to and haven’t done any background or research on their candidate at all, which is unbelievably bad.

In 2019, no company or HR team worth it’s salt will say these kinds of things. Please don’t paint the entire industry with the brush of a few bad recruiters.

I recently had a recruiter reach out to both myself and one of my employee’s about the same role….. clearly they had done zero research on either one of us.

HI Alice… take a look at https://www.qualtrics.com/careers/?office=Sydney#explore We have a number of open senior roles in our Research Services division. With your background in research and tech, you’d be a good fit. Message me if one takes your fancy and i’ll put a referral through. Mark

Well if that hypothetical ever actually happens please let us know

Sorry if I missed this but why did you leave your previous role as opposed to just taking maternity leave? With 12 months maternity leave wouldn’t you have now been able to return to your old job?

I agree with Nick and Phil! Ignorant, biased, bad recruiters having no idea what it is you do. One of the most frustrating parts of looking for a new job. Best of luck with your next role.

Isn’t the “worth” of something what the market will pay? I think my house, car or boat are “worth” more than they are, but in reality if they were on the open market I would never realise that “worth”.

Because I got pregnant within the first 12 months of my role there so I wasn’t covered by their maternity cover.

My question too. Why did you “step away” when your position was protected by law?

Hi Alice,

Disappointed that you have been through this.
Having recently been on maternity leave and mistreated by parts of this industry there are a few things I have learnt.
1. Back yourself
2. Don’t give up breaking down barriers
3. You have more friends that you know
4. Don’t read the comments

Alice – why didn’t newscorp keep your role open? Even if you hadn’t been there 12 months per policy that is the burning question from reading the piece and one that I think needs answering as your employer at the time of having a child.

Seems to be an issue of horrendous recruiters, not being diligent

Wait till you hit your 40’s (where they assume you have kids anyway) and every recruiter/inhouse agency HR manager looks at your CV and 20+ years of experience like you’re some invalid who blue rinses your hair and has already booked a disability vehicle transfer into a BUPA retirement village.

All I hear from recruitment mates in other industries (banking, IT and telecoms) is about a lack of quality experienced seniors who are the ones who stick around in roles for 3-5-10 years and their client’s frustration putting the investment in to get anyone under 35 up to speed and committed with their business only to have them jump ship to another role pretty much on their contract end date like an end of a lease on a house.

Maybe give them a staff job then so people aren’t fearing the contract won’t be renewed. I start looking three months out – if there’s a better offer, I’ll take it. If I have a staff job, I won’t necessarily be looking

Pay no attention to the trolls Alice. Your experience is sadly not unique and your value is not in question.

It’s been my experience that most recruiters in Australia, with a small number of exceptions, are not great. They talk down the market, offer salaries way below your expectations and want to make it as easy for themselves to make the sale, as possible.

Because at the end of the day, recruiters are salespeople, dependent on commissions to survive. So they’ll risk making a bad match or negging you into accepting a sub-par role or salary, if it means their own salary gets topped up with the least amount of effort on their part. In some other markets, it’s in the recruiters interests to act as YOUR agent, selling you in regardless of role avails and negotiating the highest salary possible – I mean, imagine!.

I don’t know of one agency, media owner or client who prefers using a recruiter when they’d prefer to make direct hires. If I called a recruiter right now, I can guarantee they’ll tell me the market is tough and no one is paying well because supply outstrips demand. Yet in the past two weeks alone, I’ve had calls and emails directly from 4 agency networks, all with senior level roles to fill and they can’t find who they’re looking for. Go figure.

So my advice FWIW is to go direct to the companies you want to work for, tell them you’re interested in getting onto their HR radar/database and you never know when they’ll have a role for you, or create a role for you. They will be flexible to get and keep good people.

Or maybe there’s a new business in this? A recruitment firm that specialises in placing high quality people that other recruiters don’t know how to handle?

All my best.

It was a poorly executed, sarcastic gag.

Alice shouldn’t take a pay cut, nor should a recruiter make assumptions based on her personal circumstances.

A junior in our industry recently asked me to recommend a good recruiter. My answer:

“There are literally none – they dont know what you want, where you have come from or what’s best for you. They pretend to understand the industry, but they are merely intruders on the fringe. They have monthly targets just like you and you are their product. Approach companies you want to work for directly, find the most appropriate contact on LinkedIn and start a dialogue via email / LinkedIn messaging”

Suffice to say, I’m not actually a recruiter.

I’m sorry but I don’t think these recruiters are a true reflection of the opportunities and attitudes out there. Recruiters can be chasing anything and everything trying to fill a role. Anyone can come up against obstacles job hunting or dry patches when in between work. When people know your value and boundaries are set, you’ll exceed your previous expectation in earning.

Totally agree here Nick.

This is less about the applicant but more about how recruitment companies continually miss the mark.
It’s a numbers game.
There a more junior roles available and recruitment companies use ‘time to fill’ to measure success which has driven a ‘bums in seat” mentality.
This is likely to continue until they adopt a “successful” placement metric (completion of probationary period & performance rating).
Until that time applicants, ill-suited placements and their mangers will experience frustration.

Maybe your previous employer is the issue here, not promoting an environment that valued you enough to give you unpaid maternity leave despite you not being there for 12 months. Considering you were in a senior position you think they would want to keep you (I assume it took them a while to find someone for the role), not a comment on your performance but rather theirs an employer.

I returned to Sydney after a 2 year interstate stint in which I was made redundant. Although I spent those last 8 months managing my own small business and doing what I could to stay professionally active, when I returned there was an overwhelming sense of doubt from potential employers – even those I had relationships with.

In the end I got my foot in the door, but with a pay and title cut, which lasted about a year before my network regained faith in me and I was rapidly promoted, albeit into another business, and doubled my salary.

I don’t think this is only a ‘mum’ thing, and although I think women probably experience this more (I am a woman), I think there’s plenty of men out there with the experience.

the best way to find out what you are worth is to put yourself out to market. I don’t think it has to do with having a baby etc….

I think anyone who steps out of the industry for a while might find that they don’t just step back in where they left off because especially in digital, things move so fast.

Perhaps you need to just swallow your pride, get back into the workforce and I am sure you’ll find your natural place in the hierarchy in the coming years.

Good luck with it!

Alice the reason why you had a bad experience is because these recruiters don’t know you. It’s like any other relationship.

My advice to you and everyone else is to find a recruiter you trust, build that rapport and maintain it. I have a coffee with my two senior recruiters at least once a QTR and have been for the last 10 years. When the right opportunity comes they know exactly what I want and who I am as professional and individual.

It’s unfortunate but most people use recruiters like a one night stand. They use them to get the job and then don’t talk to them again.

I think we need to appreciate and be thankful for those recruiters who do it correctly. Because when the time comes when you really need a good recruiter—and this article is a great example—they’ll be the best asset you have.

It sounds like you landed back on your feet with the offers. Congratulations.

Let’s also be frank on something else John.

Most desirable businesses don’t require the use of recruiters, so generally the companies they represent are either startups or of the “one night stand” caliber.

A quarterly coffee isn’t that necessary.

Thanks Jax.

This article touches the topic of external recruiters reaching out to Alice and not understanding her needs nor reviewing her qualification before throwing an entry level role in front of her. They’re inexperienced. I am simply highlighting their is high quality recruiters out there and it’s important to be maintain a relationship with them. Just like my mortgage broker, bank manager and my accountant and agent who is managing my properties.

I think it is a given desirable companies don’t use external recruiters, but this isn’t the topic.

Don’t have coffee with your top recruiter once a quarter? That’s your advice, not mine.

NewsCorp and digital expert, shouldn’t sit in the same sentence. Man, woman, itdoesn’t matter. Google, Atlassian, FB, funded startups = you will find digital experts.

Subscribe to the Twitter channel ‘Crap on LinkedIn’. This has helped many professionals brush up on their emotional intelligence.

A career of jumping around also doesn’t help, again, regardless of gender and parental status.

Without questioning the validity of Alice’s comments, there is another factor at play here.
Salaries are lower.
And the downward trend shows no sign of retreating.

had the greatest privilege of working with Alice back in our Fairfax days and is one of the most honest, endearing and intelligent women I have worked with. Great article and well done Alice for raising this issue to the forefront once again.