Guest post: An open letter to the ad industry – don’t sponsor Kyle & Jackie O

Hear hear Adam. I’ve started a Twitter protest as well: #optus #stopsponsoringaustereo

Jerry Springer is okay?

Hi,

As a society we seem to take some sick pleasure in seeing/hearing other people humiliate themselves or be humiliated – it is almost as if we think we are somehow better people everytime we see someone else behave badly. Who really is the loser if we allow this continued exploitation of the vulnerable people in our society?

Simon, Jerry Springer is a show with consenting adults who know what they’re getting into. There’s a BIG difference between mocking dumb Americans who are in it for their 15 seconds of lame fame and exploiting child sexual assault victims.

Adam, I’m sorry, but you do come off as a bit self righteous here.

Your moral crusade sounds like its based on a personal dislike of the program, rather than the actual issue.

Coming from someone who works in advertising, I find it quite funny you’re trying to ride so high on that horse- seems almost laughable.

To post about moral decay, and then 10mins later- probably get back to work on your latest alcohol campaign- most which apeall to minors- is hypocrisy in its finest form.

“However, the acts of Kyle and Jackie O this week were blatantly deplorable and I feel must be strongly challenged.”

What acts? I’m interested on what your stance is based on- you clearly seem to leave it pretty ambiguous throughout the whole article. What exactly are you upset about?
The rape claim?
The Lie Detector?
The Fact she was a minor?
The outcome?
Kyles question afterwards?
The screening process?

Your post doesnt really explain much, apart from the fact you want them off air- and pleading for Optus to spend thier money somewhere else (as they’re obviously not spending it with Naked).

If nothing else, all this issue has done, is bring out all the hypocrites in the media landscape, papers and TV stations alike- and people like you are at the forefront.

Great post. Also I have sent emails and told everyone about the other sponsors who have big banner ads on 2dayfm. aussie.com.au and singaporeair.com . You can let them know as well that their sponsorship pays for the station that pays for this crap. Money talks since ACMA is toothless.

“exploiting child sexual assault victims.”

Oh god, spare me the emotive drivel.

If they knew she was raped before the interview comments like that are warranted, but lets stick to the facts.

This whole deflection of the issue away from the mother, the legal guardian, is absurd. What role does she play in all of this?

Sure- the situation is bloody awful, even appalling.

But this stance of “oh, sack Kyle, rip their sponsors away!!” Seems to only be coming from people in AdLand who have vested interests in it.

Nothing will change. They still rate, people listen. Sponsors flock to shows like this. If Optus leaves, there’ll be 10 other companies lining up to take their place.

What delusions of grandeur some of you people have in thinking taking a few sponsors away will cause the show to implode. Absolute dreamers.

Well put Adam, good to see someone in the industry willing to put their name to a (polarising) opinion.

Ajax, hooking a 14-year-old girl up to a lie detector test on radio and asking her about her sex life is exploitation, whether they knew about her past or not. They are paid enough money and have enough experience to know that one possible outcome of the situation was exactly what happened.

The best possible way for me to protest is not to listen, and I don’t. But I’m not happy about my phone company giving them money and I have no qualms making that clear to them as well.

Matt, Optus couldnt give a sh*t about its customers.

I cant even get a network half the time. You’re wasting your time.

Well, Ajax, if you’re right, I’ll switch to a carrier who does give a sh*t what I think. Either way, it’s worth making my voice heard. Twitter gives me that power.

Go on, switch then. Be the martyr you always wanted to be.

Sorry Ajax but you’re fighting a loosing battle with this one. People from all walks of life – ad men and women included – are justified in their outrage. Even rival shock-jocks, who would obviously benefit from their demise, are right in calling for their sacking.

K & JO haven’t just overstepped a boundary like the Chaser boys did, they shattered it. To merely turn off is not enough I’m afraid. Broadcasters, not just Austereo, and their advertisers need to be sent a very clear message here, and since the authority supposedly in place to prevent these atrocities from occurring doesn’t seem able to get involved, then it’s up to the rest of us.

There is absolutely nothing defensible here.

Adam, didnt realise I was fighting a “loosing” battle at all.

No ones saying what occured isnt awful. Especially not me. Please re-read my posts.

What type of mum would take her 14 year old daughter on there and ask that type of question…

Chris: How dare you bring sensible discussion into the debate and blame the mother-

Please leave this site immediately, common sense isn’t welcome here- only emotive drivel.

Reading this I can only agree with Ajax.. Where is the mother in all of this? Yes Kyle stumbled and said the wrong thing (which is why they pay him to be on idol) and I agree the minute or so after it aired could of been handled much better, but what sort of mother puts her 14 year old daughter into that situation in the first place?

Yes, she saw it as a way to find out what was going on with her daughter, and yes, it was Kyle and jackies show it was on, but a) the mother knew about the rape and still put her daughter through that and b) perhaps if she was a GOOD mother she wouldn’t of fine down that path with her daughter at all. Kyle and jackie were enablers yes, but people always seem to forget the good they do too, not to mention that the MOTHER has a duty of care for her daughter to not let this sort of thing happen!

Great post.

I can only second the idea that we all do everything we can to make our voices heard. As an Optus customer, I made a formal complaint yesterday and will get tweeting now!

They feel like small things, but (not to get too preachy) if we can pull together and stamp our feet loud enough, you never know – it may be enough to get these imbeciles SOME form of punishment…

Top post adam…with your sentiment 100%

I agree, but I also think the mother needs to be held to account, as it seems clear she was aware of the rape all along.

Yay! Join the revolution! Get tweeting people- lets show Optus that WE the customer have a say in all this. They’ll listen!!!

There has to be some responsibility, somewhere.

The industry must respond to the public and advertisers (those who ultimately pay the salaries), with some positive and responsible action. An ignorant apology by K & JO, (the “it wasn’t me…” response), is not seen by most to be enough. And it is the moral majority that matter here. The stakeholders and customers in Optus should be rightly concerned.

A key question here is when are we going to see one of the appointed regulatory bodies actually do something? What will it actually take?

It is always healthy to have our moral ‘compass’ challenged. Adam has made a worthy contribution to the debate on this issue. He is not putting himself forward as being above criticism in his own moral judgements.

Marketing and media need to have their moral compass challenged constantly as they are such a huge influence on (and, of course, reflection of) society.

This isn’t about Optus, advertising or Adam. It’s about taking responsibility. So anyone who is criticising Adam for being self righteous is missing the point. Adam is just saying enough is enough and I couldn’t agree more. Radio ratings can be achieved in many ways. But unfortunately Kyle and Jackie-O aren’t funny enough to do it without pathetic stunts which exploit people.
The sponsors will stop spending money when people stop listening to the show. Let’s do that.

It was Kyle’s first response that really proves, beyond doubt, how much of a jackass he is.
If someone said to me (or most other human beings with an IQ of over 1) said “Oh, I was raped”, the words “Is that the only sexual experience you’ve had?” would certainly not be the next to come out of my mouth.

The mother is absolutely at fault, no one could disagree with that…but that’s a family issue – Vile and Tacky O are national broadcasters – they should know a hell of a lot better.

Obviously someone needs to call Docs in regards to the mother, she placed her daughter under a lie detectator with the knowledge her daughter had been abused.

Having said that 2dayfm should accept responsiblity for the fact they placed a 14 yr old girl under a lie detector. Given shes only fourteen years old, what information did they expect to reveal? Given the nature they obviously expected something to be quite shocking to be revealed otherwise the interview wouldn’t have been very interesting.

Having said that what made things worse was Kyles reply after the revelation. The interview should of been cut straight away.

Agree sponsors should be pulled.

IMO This is a classic case of a unrestrained Ego let loose with no monitoring and no one there to grab this guy by the balls, squeeze tightly and say “Kyle your a Fuck Wit. get a clue, get a sense of Morallity and grow the fuck up”

To think that putting a minor on a lie detector – regardless of the parent saying it was ok – whows they have no existing mornal compass. Anyone can be a parent, doesnt mean they should be.

And when faced with the story of rape it didnt register in this monekys head in a nano second as shocking? No, insead the question was “oh, ok, so been fucked by anyone else?”. At what point does this seem a logical progression or question from someone who has just shared they were raped. Only someone who has zero ability to handle any sort of socially sensitive or sensible issues culd handle this the way Kylie and his co host could.

There is a Kill buttong is the studio. Maybe someone should draw a map for these two Morally bankrupt hosts as to exactly where it is.

{end Rant}

I’m not religious but there is a great quote from The Bible, “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” I point that out for the benefit of all whom are claiming the moral high-ground.

Our society is defeated by judgment….and it is judgment that misrepresents all the parties in this “event.”

Even before knowledge of the rape was out there, the whole concept was wrong in the first place, and for that we have Kyle, Jackie O and their producers to blame.

Rightly or wrongly and for whatever reason she did it, the mother only took advantage of an opportunity that should never have been presented to her, or to her child for that matter.

Unfortunately, despite all protestations, my fear is that nothing will happen to the producers or to K & JO and, even if advertisers pull their ad dollars in the short term, they’ll eventually return to them.

Absolutely agree Adam (and good on you for saying so.)

Austereo showed a complete lack of morality in facilitating this horror show.

It wasn’t just “an accident”, it wasn’t just “badly handled on air”, it was set up to be a train smash, right through that child (and ther family’s) life.

Really sick and I wonder what they will do to change a culture that allowed that to happen.

The fact that Austereo is yet to take any action over this incident speaks volumes about the corporate culture that encourages this kind of behaviour. I have never listened to Kyle and Jackie O because I simply don’t need their puerile and obnoxious attitudes to spoil my day. I am not that surprised they are now in the midst of this controversy as they are part of a radio industry that seems to thrive on serving up trash, humiliation and vulgarity passed off as talent. Little wonder that so many of the people around me on the train this morning were plugged into their ipods instead of the transistor radio.

Taking it a step further, the debate should continue to why our society is obsessed with the rubbish that is pedalled via some media. It’s an extremely disturbing trend. Think about it: you are probably working/commuting next to an idiot.

On an Optus note: I had two cheeky young Optus sales reps knock on my door at 8.40pm the other evening telling me that my unit block had been connected to a new cable and to pretty much “sign here”. I told them to p1ss off… Optus do not give 2 hoots about their customers(.) They play a numbers game.

On the radio shambles:
Counsel the girl. Question the broadcaster allowing a minor to be interviewed in such a way. The mother needs to be questioned. The male disc jockey needs to be sacked…

On society
You need a license to own a dog…

Clearly the line has been over-stepped, all in the name of stunt. I find the whole story very sad, that such a young girl can be so f***ed up, be raped at age 12, have a mother who knew (albeit only recently), and still allow her daughter on air when she knew there was a polygraph involved. Clearly, the mother is the most scrambled of the lot, and the young girl has bugger-all chance of a half-decent life.

However, something still puzzles me. How the hell were K&JO (or more correctly their producers – they don’t actually set these things up, their people do) to know she had been raped? Are people seriously suggesting we have a list of screening questions that includes “have you been raped”? I pose this in order to ensure such a vile incident doesn’t happen again – we can’t change the fact this DID happen – but we can sure change what happens in the future by making sure this can’t happen again.

I absolutely agree with Ajax. While i think the Kyle and Jackie-O show is a deplore waste of airtime I wouldnt go as far as to kick them off the air. This wasnt their fault, this was the fault of the mother. It was her who asked about the kid’s sexual history..

Vote with your dials people. If you have a problem, dont listen to them. Very soon, they will be off the air that way…

Well said Adam. Honest, heartfelt and direct. Still outraged and dumbfounded how this even got to air.

Adam you make very good points throughout this piece and I’d like to comment on this one in particular:

“It would appear that our society is experiencing death (or moral decay) by 1000 cuts – and no one is putting a stop to it for fear, I assume, that the dollars will stop flowing.”

Sure, it’s probably fear about the flow of dollars but it’s also fear of being branded a wowser, or old-fashioned or some other unpopular label. Does everyone remember the Kyle and Jackie O campaign from about a year ago (not sure on dates), with the 60 something woman in the unflattering make-up and wardrobe ranting on about how much she hates Kyle? The tagline of the ad was something along the lines of “some people just don’t get it.”

The clear implication is that you’re somehow lacking a sense of humour or other essential personality trait if you take offence to the program’s nastiness, or if you recognise Kyle for the charmless thug he is. This is the problem we have: our society has somehow come to believe that rudeness and bullying are amusing because we fear the consequences if we dare to voice an alternative opinion.

Laura F-B, “it I also think the mother needs to be held to account”.

As I understand it DOCS is investigating, so that looks likely.

There’s a broader issue here, which is the failure of the producer, and the hosts, to see that the whole idea of this segment – especially as a live segment – was that it was monumentally stupid. Something was always going to go wrong. If it had gone wrong with an adult, fine – as other people have said, there’s an element of consent involved there. But the idea of letting a minor be involved in such things is just idiotic.

Someone, somewhere, should recognise this so it doesn’t happen again. The only way it won’t happen again is for this to cost the perpetrators something.

I don’t agree with everything Adam says, but he’s right when he says it reveals more about Austereo than Kyle or Jackie O. The lack of action by the company lays bare the utter desperation of its day-to-day scramble for ratings. Not the actions of an entity with a whole lot fo faith in its own long-term future.

Sorry Tom, but the vast majority of Sydneysiders ( > 90% ?) have never listened to them so your theory doesn’t hold up I afraid. Simply walking away is a green light for them to keep going, and who know what will happen. Sadly it will take something like a victim’s suicide or worse before Austereo reluctantly yanks on their chain. In the mean time, it’s keep the money rolling in as usual – and if reports are true, that’s a cool $15 million per year. No wonder their employer are standing by them.

As for blame, yes the mother is one of the worst in Australia, but that still doesn’t relieve K @ JO and Austereo of their duties as broadcasters. They put it to air – they take responsibility.

polarising media incidents, like this one and the chaser skit, get everyone on the moral high-horse for a week or so, then we go back to normal. for mine, the bigger issue is the dumbing down of society by a media that seems to feed itself with these choreographed controversies and celeb-focused drivel.

i’ve resigned myself to the fact that we get the media we deserve, and while a handful of interested and clearly intelligent individuals may seek to have things change on the back of a controversial incident, it’s a sad fact that enough people will continue to listen to the likes of Kyle & Jackie O, and so sponsor $$$ will follow and nothing will change. ditch them, and another couple of schmucks will line up to take over the program, and on we go

increased media fragmentation and choice is perhaps the only salvation I see in the future as our collective IQ moves steadily downwards

Dam fine post Adam F, and moral high-horse shmoral high-horse there are limits people!!!

BTW i include the chaser reference just as an example of the media beat-ups that accompany these issues that take on a life of their own, the chaser boys handled their particular controversy quite well in my opinion

There always has to be a fall-guy and I suspect that Austereo will have one. Will it be from on-air (Kyle and Jackie ), production or mangement? The ABC had their fall guy, from management for The Chaser skit. But did they go far enough up the management tree? Could more senior managers who claimed “no knowledge” of the skit have a link to it while it was still in production and shown better judgement?

Absolutely agree but we all should not just stop buying goods from Kyle’s sponsors but Austereo’s also until they do the moral thing and can the presenters.

For those who have forgotten the most effective way to handle radio talking heads who are beset with big mouths and big egos attached to little brains and even less ticker, let Frenzal Rhomb remind you how it’s done…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l4G8c4PQQs

See? You just drown ’em out or turn ’em off. I think it was in Darwin at some music festival circa 2005. Scuttlebutt at the time reported that little blondie was 9 hours late for the gig and she went off and had a little cry after The Rhomb had finished with her.

As for the other boofhead…please, if someone sees him out and about this weekend, just walk up and snot him one. I know I will.

I find most Australian TV and Radio offensive and intellectually insulting – they should all resign.

Vive le revolution!!

The fact that you have a cop show about a German dog on prime time TV tells us a lot about broadcasting standards in Oz – and I am not referring to The Bill.

I will start by saying minors should never be used for anything except cooking fast food, stacking shelves, and acting daily life in a small coastal suburb at 7pm on channel 7 each weeknight.

However…

You exist in an industry that parasitically tries to co-opt anything that looks like it has legs. We’re living in an age where even ANZAC Day carries a VB logo. Where are “the dozen highly paid adults” that let this happen? Why aren’t they being drawn and quartered?

I’ve seen amazing entertainers – with acts of genius that are only fit for the the murky, inebriated, early hours of the morning get told “we need to get this into a TV format” by dolt-heads that can’t wrap their heads around the fact that some people don’t want to buy into this nauseating vernacular of “leveraging”, “moneytization” or whatever the word of the day it might be.

Some people want a joke they’ve written to stay away from the grubby hands of people who never got the joke.

Kyle’s and The Chaser’s only downfall was they brought kids into it and weren’t funny. Had either one of those stunts had variables switched…and were done with some nous, it’s feasible to say ratings could have jumped further, people would have been talking about how great it was and then what?

People like you would have swept in to try and collect the change.

It’s ludicrous that advertising money from a toothpaste company should dictate what goes into my ears or into my eyes. That’s societal decay.

Societal decay is the belief that everything has to be held to this ‘nice’, ‘acceptable’ standard.

Bland people and community groups whinge and cry until their collective tinnitus-like noise brings in regulations that prevents talent from trying to inject a bit of life into the wheezing cadaver that is the entertainment industry in this country.

Kyle is definitely NOT that talent. And on that occasion (and many others), The Chaser bombed. But such outcry over incidents like this scares everyone – most dangerously, network bosses – into being hyper vigilant when it comes to the next person trying to deliver something I would want to watch or listen to.

Advertising has a ridiculous, undeserved level of power when it comes to entertainment and this pompous morality is even more unwarranted.

‘DOCs’, ‘police investigation’, ‘rape’. These words seem to get you reaching for your crumpled morality checklist like ‘naming rights’ gets you reaching for the calculator.

Well said Luke.

Kyle and Jackie O have an average of 565,000 listeners on total every morning in Sydney Metro market.

I doubt SingTel could really give a flying f**k that a few over-sensitive whingers are upset that a 14 year old girl came into the studio with her mum for a radio prank, and it went wrong.

They’ll be looking at the market penertration and the demo’s, not a handful of twitter posts.

Ajax I think you’re mistaking Kyle & Jackie O’s fake Twitter followers for listeners.*

You’re so far off the mark with your posts it’s difficult to know where to begin. Firstly I’d suggest there’s more than a “few” people offended and concerned here. Secondly, us “over-sensitive whingers” are just trying to protect the welfare of a child from a cash hungry, morally vacuous media machine and ultimately from people who want to listen in to their salacious, pornographic garbage.

Victims of similar media stunts overseas have suicided and murdered as a result of their humiliation.

But that’s okay – as long as we’re selling mobile phones everything is alright.

* According to Angela Clark, ex CEO of Macquarie Radio Network, ‘the average audience in the 10-17 year old demographic is only 32,000 across all radio stations in Sydney, both commercial and non-commercial, and in the music hungry demographic of 18-24 years it is 47,000…”

Their audience over the age of 24 can’t possibly be in the hundreds of thousands to reach the figure you claim. If you have a source I’d be happy to accept otherwise.

It’s interesting that a Google search trying to find the exact number of radio listeners in any market comes up empty – all you get are “shares”. Shares of what is obviously something the radio industry in general don’t seem too keen on divulging. At least with television you get a number to pin your advertising dollars to.

But that’s another post for another time…

Adam- I’ve found a condensed link (with pictures) to look through, the Neilson PDF’s would probably be a bit hard for you to understand.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/ent.....29358.html

“Firstly I’d suggest there’s more than a “few” people offended and concerned here.”

Well, Id disagree. Across their entire customer base, you’d barely even rate a mention. Using the word “few” is probably an overstatement.

“Secondly, us “over-sensitive whingers” are just trying to protect the welfare of a child from a cash hungry, morally vacuous media machine and ultimately from people who want to listen in to their salacious, pornographic garbage.”

hahaha, thanks for giving me a Friday arvo laugh. Carry on brother! Keep fighting the good fight! Thank god for people like you!!

I think Singtel will actually care. Do you really think that the Singaporean government wouldn’t lose their tiny minds for being associated with this sort of show? You can imagine what would happen to the hosts if they were on air in Singapore. I applaud Adam for having the courage to speak his mind on this issue. Too many people in business don’t want to rock the boat, or question or challenge, because they are afraid they’ll become a target. Good on him.

“I think Singtel will actually care. Do you really think that the Singaporean government wouldn’t lose their tiny minds for being associated with this sort of show?”

LOL – What a very long bow to draw.

Well, actually- come to think of it, its not.

Rudd’s already weighed in on the situation, why stop there. Lets bring the Singapore government in on it as well!

In saying that, why not approach all the major US labels and get them to block the music being played on the station all together!

I’m calling for a public protest outside Universal and Sony on Monday at midday, WHO’S WITH ME??!!

From the 2DayFM site: “Are you questioning your relationship? Need some advice about whether it’s time to move on? Kyle and Jackie O could help you make that tough decision”.
Time for them to take that tough decision and move on, I’d say.

I really liked this post and suspect a number of advertisers will take their money elsewhere. It won’t be because of the stunt it’ll be because the station has inadvertently revealed their audience. Radio has always been full of silly stunts. It seems to drive an audience and that’ll never stop. I think more attention should be focussed on the mother. I find it extraordinary that a mother who had a few issues with her daughter chose Today FM and a lie detector as the means to resolve her concerns. It’s lowest common denominator thinking that I suspect matches the audience for this stuff. Not too many advertisers want to be seen chasing this audience.

Um Ajax – those are “cumulative” numbers, but thanks for playing.

565,000 / whatever a rating’s period is (21 days I think?) = a number a lot less than the “every morning” number you quoted.

So I’d say my assumption that the vast majority of Sydneysiders don’t listen to their show would be correct, no?

Yes my dear Adam, can see they’re cumulative- meaning individual listeners over the period.

Never argued that the vast majority of Sydneysiders DO listen- just argued- with numbers like that- I’d be suprised if Optus pulled.

Thats a huge difference from the over half a mill a day you said. Personally I was surprised to see their daily audience was so small.

Optus will probably drop them like like a sack of spuds – simply not worth the trouble.

Its a “reach” half a million listeners.

Hypothetically, that could mean .5M of the same people every day.

Or, Hypothetically, 28,000 different listeners everyday.

Big call of Optus dropping them though! I guess only time will tell.

Shame, Shame, Shame!!!! It is time the school bully and the prom queen were kicked out of this school. For too long these terrible characters have got away taste less and shallow acts. The best way to vote them off is to stop listening and then the advertisers would go too. Walk with your ears and show them we have had enough!

Well, looks like they’re not pulling.

I hope this hasnt ruined everyone’s weekend too much.

Just for clarity, 565,000 cumulative audience is over a week. That’s 565,000 individuals that listen for at least 15 minutes in a week. If the average weekly frequency on radio is 3.5 (but breakfast shows would typically be higher) then each day would approximate 70% of that.

Adam Paull,

I wouldn’t take anything Angela Clark has to say about radio very seriously. She is not particularly knowledgable about how it works despite heading up Macquarie and was largely disliked when she was there for precisely this reason. She was know to frequently get the basics of radio wrong and for misquoting stats etc.

The source Ajax is using is Nielsen Media Research, Survey #4, 2009 (the most recent). He has quoted Cumulative Audience numbers. The Cumulative Audience is the total number of different people who listen for at least one quarter hour during the course of a chosen time-period or session.

When you read about “Shares” this refers to the percentage of the total listening audience in a given time period tuned to a particular station. This takes into account average audience and time spent listening.

You are quite wrong when you say that “the vast majority of Sydneysiders ( > 90% ?) have never listened to them”. Radio is a powerful medium. if it wasn’t then this story wouldn’t have caused such a stir. Similarly, advertising campaigns would fail (and trust me, they can often measure just how well these campaigns are working) and the station wouldn’t be able to operate.

2DayFM has the third highest Share in Breakfast, they have 11.4% of the 10+ audience, behind 2GB on 17.6% and ABC702 on 12.9%. Thus they are the highest rating FM station and the second highest rating commercial station overall in Breakfast.

Amazing, I know! I can’t stand the vacuous stupidity of their Breakast Show, but amazingly, a large number of people listen to it (as Ajax quoted, approxiamately 565,000 tune at some point during their show). You’ll find that the West of Sydney dictates the numbers, so whatever they are listening to tends to dominate.

HOWEVER, people not listening makes absolutely no difference to their ratings unless the people who stop listening are part of the sample group who fill in the books that are used to measure ratings. So, if you are one of the people filling out the Nielsen Media Research Radio listening habit books, stop listening and note it down. Only then will their ratings be affected. And trust me, if their ratings go right down, they will lose advertising $$ and their show will be reconsidered. Advertising Agencies largely buy off the statistics, if you don’t have the ratings, they won’t buy you. That’s the way it rolls…

Thought i’d clear that up!

Ajax McCoy
“Methinks the lady doth protest too much..”
To have such a vested interest in defending the indefensible, one can only assume you either have very close ties to Austereo, or you work for Optus and are trying to explain away their misjudgement on this issue.

Oh and Adam, you don’t divide those numbers by the number of days in the survey, that’s not how it works. But, for you reference, a survey is typically a 5 week period.

Maxie- can you explain to me what exactly I’m defending?

You’ve clearly missed the point by a long shot. Re-read my posts.

Never have I said its acceptable what’s occurred. If anything, I’ve said its bloody appalling radio.

Methinks the lady knows what she’s talking about!

Anna, just to clear things up, is the 565k cume an “average weekly cume”, or the “survey period cume”. Given that some surveys are of different length I suspect that it is taken down to the common denominator of a week. (And on the smallest technical note – you only have to listen to a majority of the quarter hour, so eight minutes will actually do the trick to have you counted into the cume.

Ajax – u playing at parklife?

Ajax, i have a question for you.

You seem to have a good understanding of how radio works. So you would know that there would be programming and promotions staff involved in a segment like this. Any programmer or promos person doing their job would have checked over the mother’s questions before it went to air to ensure that the whole thing didn’t go to hell in a handbasket (as it has).

So, assuming the mother didn’t just make this one up on the spot and spring it on them all (which I doubt), they knew that this woman was going to ask her 14 year old daughter if she was sexually active. Whatever way she answered, this girl was going to be humiliated in front of hundreds of thousands of people.

Yes, absolutely the mother is at fault.

But do you not see the station as being at fault for allowing and encouraging and taking advantage of this situation, this girl and this question, all in the name of shock value and talkability?

Anna, the fact it is live generally means that it is unscripted – even for the jocks. They have a run sheet – but not a script (OK, Lawsy and Jonesy may have!). I strongly doubt that the mother’s questions would have been scripted. And yes, the station is still cuplable – what part of a 14-year-old girl on a polygraph didn’t ring alarm bells?!?!

Hi Anna, thanks for clearing it up although I still stand by the fact that the majority of Sydneysiders do not listen to their show. The population of Sydney is somewhere near the 4 million mark last time I looked so even if 1/2 mill tuned in daily that fact still remains.

The point that I was making was that simply “not listening to them” will not stop this sort of thing from happening again in the future.

Maybe you’d hold some credit had a giant Nova radio station banner been flashing next to the story. Yes, advertisers – dont advertise on 2Day – choose Nova instead. Stupid, stupid post. Also, the mother and the girl agreed to be on the program, so why is any of this an issue??

Adam, of course the majority of people do not listen to their show – the majority don’t listen to any particular TV show. The majority of people do not watch the #1 TV show (the “highest rating” channel is actually “Off”). The majority of people do not read the largest selling newspaper or magazine. The majority of people do not use even the largest website or even search engine. The fact is that any one point of time the majority of people are doing other things, so what point are you trying to make? However, I do confidently predict that majority do breathe.

Well actually the way it works is, the sample group are given books and they have to tick what station they are listening to (if any) every 15 minutes. Yes it is an antiquated system but they cannot find anything else that works.

The problem with measuring radio is that there are so many radios out there! You tend to have one or two tvs but radios are everywhere. For instance, I have a radio in my room, on in my kitchen and one in my living area. I also used to have a shower radio. I have a radio in my car and frequently get in to other cars, taxis etc which are playing the radio. We have the radio on at work and when I walk into shops and cafes they frequently have the radio on too.

So how do you measure all of this listening? Keeping in mind that general numbers are not all that is required, specific demographics are needed. The books have been found to be the most accurate way of measuring listening, although they have significant flaws. As a result, all stats should be taken with a rather large grain of salt!

When people say “Over the week” they usually refer to Mon-Fri or Mon-Sun. You never measure by more than a week, the survey averages out the 4-5 weeks it is taken over to work out the stats for a week. You can narrow it down further. So, for instance, 2DayFM has a Cumulative audience of 365,000 listeners on Mondays in Breakfast (5:30am-9am).

Perhaps we should organise a cull of 2Day listeners? Thin out the herd…

Tynan, was that aimed at me? I don’t work at Nova.

John Grono, I can tell you right now that “Live” is not what you seem to think it is. For a start, they may not script what happens but it is still planned. This segment had a prize attached which means that the promotions department, programming department and the Breakfast team would have all had input into what happens in the segment. It would then usually be run by the promotions team.

There is a lot of planning that goes into these things, it is not just completley spontaneous. Someone should have checked those questions before they were asked, and most likely did. They would have to because the Broadcaster has certain obligations. Obviously with Live Radio you can’t control everything which is said, but you can be careful. This is why most stations have a 7 second delay and a dump button. All of the Talkback stations have one so they can prevent potentially libelous statements going to air as well as swearing, etc etc. I believe Nova got one because of Akmal.

The questions should have been checked. That question should have been weeded out.

Tynan, when you were 14 how clearly did you think things out? THINK! Most 14 year old think it is the height of coolness to be on radio or TV. I also highly doubt the girl expected or heartless, brainless mother to ask her a question like that on live radio. Also, yes, they agreed to be on the show but the broadcaster still has responsibilites.

I like your thinking Adam!!

Typical of Gutless Optus, not taking responsibility for the ignorant raving’s of a Stupid Talentless so called Man being Kyle Studipmans. I wont ever support Optus or buy their products ever again. Shame on you optus, your company has NO BALLS.

Great to see that 1) this has generated a lot of response…so people care about something here and 2) the discussion is feisty.

Personally, I think that it’s up to the sponsors to make their own decisions. I’d love to think some will make a stand – it would only take a couple of major sponsors to make a call on this for some sort of result (and you know, they can always come back again when the dust has settled).

It’s the people who will make the final call. If they leave the dollars will follow. Part of me is cynical and thinks this will be lapped up by us, the public. Another part takes heart at the massive ratings from Masterchef. In comparison to so much else broadcast content, it was essentially good old fashioned entertainment. No ritual humiliation, no overly engineered scenarios (within reason), and a bunch of contestants who, on the whole, did not come over as shallow, self aggrandising D-listers.

Rumours of the death of taste are, I believe, much exaggerated.

Ajax,

You think if the customers start voting with their feet Optus won’t react? They may not give a shit about their customers but they sure is fuck give a shit about their revenue stream.

You seem very much to miss the point on that. If the customers react then the advertisers won’t touch it with a ten-foot pole for fear of damaging their brands. Your claim that a bunch of rival advertisers will rush in pure bullshit.

Also, you challenge Adam to outline his problem and say that it isn’t clear.

Well:

“Forget how terribly the incident was handled, and Kyle’s subsequent inept comments – just the act of strapping a 14 year old girl to a polygraph and forcing her to reveal details of her nonconsensual sexual activities, and drug taking behaviour live on radio is sick.”

That’s clear enough to me. Why isn’t it to you?

I’m not going to moralise about Austereo because what’s struck me the most is what I’m imagining to be the desperation of a mother to break a stand-off situation with a daughter, and a daughter’s pain that’s mutated into public reprisal against her own blood.

I just hope that whatever happens leads them to a better place because mum and daughter set each other up to devastate each other in front of people they don’t even know. Both were motivated to do this before anything even went to air.

It takes a village.

Hi Anna.

I think you will see i wrote “They have a run sheet – but not a script”. Could you please explain what subtle difference is between that and what you wrote … “For a start, they may not script what happens but it is still planned” . The run sheet is the plan, is it not. And D’uh … I sort of twigged that promos, programming and on-air just might be included somewhere along the way as part of that planning that manifests itself in the run sheet.

I still don’t see how the mother’s questions (or anyone else external to the planning process) would have fitted under your statement “Someone should have checked those questions before they were asked, and most likely did.” The problem is that someone in production, programming, management or on-air didn’t think through the issue of “the rogue question” – the focus was on the ‘smarty-pants up-side’ and not the ‘train-wreck down-side’. When you go live (as they clearly were, flying by the seat of their pants) you’re taking a risk (which is a huge attraction of radio jocks) and you have to plan for the worst, especially in the contrived scenario that had been set up. This clearly didn’t happen, and that’s why this unsavoury incident has occurred and why there need to be repercussions.

Village Roadshow, Mark?

Re Jeff Contiki 31 Jul 09 2:14 pm

” I find most Australian TV and Radio offensive and intellectually insulting – they should all resign.

Vive le revolution!!

The fact that you have a cop show about a German dog on prime time TV tells us a lot about broadcasting standards in Oz – and I am not referring to The Bill ”

It is not really that surprising Jeff (looking at some of the bizarre responses to Adam’s valid argument) that we do broadcast a lot of rubbish in Australia – we obviously have an audience that it appeals to.

How anyone would feel comfortable asking a child about such an incident is beyond my comprehension. It’s sick.
The people responsible for the broadcast need to be held accountable.

Why woulD you even listen to these narrowminded presenters
.. Can’t belive there still in work!

@Mark – the daughter didn’t seem to want to be there at all.

Village idiot, Adam.

Of course the daughter wanted to be there… all she had to do was tell the world about her sex life and she was going to win tickets to a Pink concert – all little girls love going to Pink concerts, don’t they? Lucky thing.

She was just nervous – just as well mummy was there to hold her hand…

I wonder what other exciting contests they have planned?

A cuppla points:

1. Surely the boycott call ought to be directed to the organisation behind the Pink tour who are directly associated with the segment – the main motivator. Optus is a major sponsor of the show, and clearly has some power to influence – should the ratings take a hit (My guess – they will now go up).

2. Where is the evidence the 14 year old is “damaged”? As a psychologist, you ought to know better than to offer a professional opinion that could be taken by the general public to be anything that resembles a diagnosis if you do not have first hand knowledge of the girl’s history. Do you? It’s called over reaching and misrepresenting the science of psychology.

3. Speaking of 3., you’d be better off imploring the duo to stop mispresenting polygraph testing as something that is in fact no better for predicting human behaviour than astrology. It’s basically a tool to have fun with, at least in this conetxt. In other contexts, it can cost innocent people their livelihoods. (See Penn and Teller’s most recent ShowTime Bullshit! episode for some evidence).

4. Kyle was clearly completely caught out to judge by his wholly inappropriate follow up comment about other sexual experiences. My undestanding is that he was in NZ and performed his side of the interview by audio. Big mistake given how things turned out, but he was clearly removed from the situation and possibly may have acted differently if he had been in the same room eyeballing mother and daughter. That’s about as much explanation I’m willing to offer the boor.

5. As Obama has said with respect to racial profiling recently, this is a teachable moment. Who will be the teacher and who, the students?

6. My “Doh!” question to finish off: I wonder what will be the ABC’s MediaWatch lead story this Monday? It will be very interesting to hear a full account of what actually happened and its aftermath.

K & JO could have turned this into a positive by campaigning against rape, starting a fund for rape victims and a whole host of other things to stop this kind of thing happening.

It’s a shame that this whole incident is more about Kyle getting fired than trying to stop a terrible thing like rape.

Firstly,anyone with a fourteen year old knows its virtually impossibe to “drag” them anywhere,let alone “strap” them to a lie detector.
Such is the emotive language and grossly inaccurate reporting of this story by the media this week.Wouldnt be our trusty media doing anything for a story would it?
Unfortunate as all this was,I believe JackieO managed the situation with great professionalism,and Kyle Sandilands was clearly on the back foot,and made a mistake,for which he has apologised.(Not the cut and paste version on the 7pm Project – which was apalling)
The upside of all is this ,is girl and her mother will at last recieve some much needed counselling .

Ajax, I’m guessing you don’t have any daughters. Is that right?

I will not be supporting ANY product or service that is associated with this debarcle, including Today Fm, Fox FM etc for all clients we deal with, regardless of ratings and how people fill in books, this should NEVER have happened and I urge everyone to stop buting, cancel any exisiting quotes and send an email to the CEO telling them why you no longer are a customer.. advertisign money is what is at stake – Only problem is with all this media circus, it generally bumps up the profile of the morons. Anyone with an OPTUS phone should send a letter, email whatever complaining to the CEO, if 2 million letters or emails arrive, he will soon take action.

I aggree completely. They should be sacked and no company to sponsor them. Yes the mother was wrong, but they allowed this thing to even get near a radio. They knew it was about asking an underaged girl about sex and drugs, and they thought that was right, Even Jackie O asked her what se was worried about: The sex, drugs or lying? An they didnt think there is anything wrong with that? Absolute morons

Sad part is, this is going to blow over. It seems Optus really don’t care. So where does this leave us? Kyle & Jacky will live to offend again because Austereo management can’t understand that the public are sick the crap they produce. I also call into question the roll of ACMA. The system of deflection of listener complaints makes it near impossable to get a satisfactory result. I would like to see them take the first step.

Interesting to note, Hamish & Andy do far better than these guys WITHOUT resorting to gutter tactics. One wonders how long they will last with Austereo…

The experience of Rape compounded by this radio show may be a contributor and increases the risk of addiction to drugs or alcohol, if not treated by counseling, NOW! I have talked to many people with addiction issues and sexual assault is a common background that most addicts have.

She needs Help

I can’t find a link to post a complaint online to 2Day FM, but Austereo has one:

http://www.austereo.com.au/ind.....Itemid=186

I urge everyone to notify Austereo of your concerns about this issue. I’ve cross-posted this link on all of Mumbrella’s related threads.

I’m amazed by the expectation that this will blow over! For me as a consumer, the corporate intransigence that followed the on-air incident has been just as disturbing as the incident itself. My communications with Austereo and Optus about their stance have been blocked and ignored. Corporations may sit and watch the trashing of their brands as long as their shareholders/parent companies let them. But the former Chief Justice of the Family Court made a clear public statement that the incident was child abuse and a gross violation of human rights. And we are expected to forget about it?
Apart from dealing with the offending broadcast, there’s much to be done in the area of commercial radio industry regulation. Is there really nothing in the regulatory framework that addresses appropriate treatment of minors on radio? Also nothing to ensure regulation of what ACMA seems to think are standard industry practices like the 7-second delay and kill button, but according to an article in the Herald-Sun today, not widely practiced any more, at least not at Austereo’s stations? Perhaps delay should be mandatory for some types of programs. Is the legislation’s fit and proper person test delivering? Are broadcast licence holders and their proxies exercising the privileges of the licence as responsibile adults?
I’m not dropping this issue if it means leaving conditions in place for further beyond-the-pale exploitation.

Yes, I’m also amazed the media is not taking this on further. Complain to Austereo, complain to Optus, boycott any other sponsor of the show and keep the movement going. The part that makes me furious is EVERYBODY has gotten away with destroying a child’s psyche on public radio. Kyle’s off skiing in New Zealand while the victim’s suffering. Optus doesn’t want to act and is banking on it all blowing over, and Austereo considers this the best form of entertainment they can deliver in the mornings, which unfortunately is a sad indictment on whatever else is on Sydney radio each morning.
Great to see this debate on Mumbrella continues and hope it doesn’t stall – keep hassling, keep the media alerted and make sure the sponsors are aware that doing nothing is UNACCEPTABLE. There’s a group on Facebook – Boycott sponsors of Kyle and Jackie O.

The volume of responses speaks for itself, but just in case there aren’t enough:
Optus, I have no business with you and won’t until you make a statement that does not support your previous promotional vehicle.

C’mon, you’d do it for footballers.

Thankyou for eloquently expressing everything I feel about this particular issue.

Well said Adam!

Full marks to Caroline Taylor (journalist) for describing Kyle Sandilands and Jackie O’s behaviour for what it really is/was: a sick radio stunt. And that’s not to use the jargonistic, ‘sick’, ‘wicked’, ‘cool’ interpretation of the word sick. Sick is too kind a description, it should be called evil.

Kyle Sandilands, Jackie O and their ilk want to take a good look in the mirror while they put some of their programmes on replay, and decide where they really sit on the moral compass.

They should ask themselves, “How would I feel if this was being done to me? Or one of my family members?” Though I doubt whether they’d have the moral or intellectual capacity to even consider it.

While they might be busy trying to defend their progam, their managment and their own personal behaviour they might want to detail some of their better points, their finer behaviour. If they have any.

When was the last time they contributed anyhing financially or personally to any worthwhile organisation, or to society, other than to their own bank accounts? When was the last time they did any volunteer work or went to the Blood Bank, picked up some rubbish off the street?

If they’ve got the intellectual capacity (which I very much doubt) they might consider taking some of their crap, so-called entertainment off the airwaves, as a reactive response, because I don’t believe they’d have a proactive, compassionate atom in their worthless bodies.

John Grono,

Wow, you’re quite rude aren’t you? Condescending too.

By “planning”, I meant they go right through the section and discuss how it will work and people behind the scenes put the whole thing together, from obtaining a prize to sourcing the polygraph to finding contestants such as that mother and daughter. The run sheet is certainly a part of said planning but is not the only part involved.

Now, when they found that mother and daughter and explained that the mother would ask questions, it should then have been part of the planing process for someone to run a quick eye over the questions the mother was asking to ensure that there weren’t any questions in there that could broach broadcasting laws or lead to huge problems etc. Clearly, a question about a minor’s sex life should have been weeded out. Either they didn’t check the questions, which they should have as a responsible broadcaster, or they did, and they left it in (for shock value perhaps?) which is apalling because there is no way that question would ever had led to anything but the humiliation of a 14 year old girl in the public forum. Nice.

Anna,I may have reacted abruptly when you rudely and condescending responded with “John Grono, I can tell you right now that “Live” is not what you seem to think it is. For a start, they may not script what happens but it is still planned.”. If so I apologise.

I would still like to know the difference! Isn’t the run-sheet the culmination of all facets and aspects of ‘the plan’ meaning that everyone in the chain has their fingerprints over this whole schemozzle – not just those on-air? The point is, it may have been planned but would someone have seriously scripted what happened – never in a million years. A plan/run-sheet and a script are very different beasts. This was a train-wreck that was going to happen at some time – and it did. While K&JO are now off-air, the key thing is to review the process by which this situation was allowed to happen to ensure it can never happen again, and that there can be no more victims in the name of ‘entertainment’.

I actually wasn’t being rude or condescending to you, I was trying to explain that the concept of “live radio” that everyone keeps bandying around still has controls inherent within it that could have prevented this situation. I have more knowledge than most about this because I work in radio so I was trying to eliminate a lot of the confusion about how it all works.

Also, if you really want to split hairs, I would say that the run sheet is part of the planning process but not the whole thing. There are many things in the planning process that aren’t on the run sheet. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be on the run sheet to check the questions but it still should be a part of the process.

Your arguement is confused. Of course all of the people involved are responsible, I never said anything to the contrary. What I said is that this situation was very much preventable and that this question should have been weeded out as part of the planning process. Of course it wasn’t scripted but it was PLANNED. That woman had pre-prepared questions. Those questions should have been reveiwed and that one taken out along with any other dangerous or highly inappropriate questions. I’m not talking an hour-long review, all it would take is someone taking five minutes to run their eye over the questions to prevent disasters.

Obviously they had no idea this girl was a victim of rape and the presenters did not expect this answer BUT the question should never have been asked in the first place and allowing it is what got them and their whole team into the hot water they currently find themselves.

Anna – that is EXACTLY what I have been saying. When you go live with no dump button, you can’t allow yourself to be in the situation they found themselves in. But you also can’t ask potential on-air guests “have you been raped” (or similiar personal questions) as a background question prior to broadcast. So, simply don’t do such stunts that can seriously go off the rails. This fiasco was unscripted – but clearly planned with the intention of sensationalism. My point is that responsibility needs to go up the chain of command to whoever gave this stunt a green light (just like The Chaser skit – but make sure they don’t just get a ‘fall-guy’) and not rest SOLELY with those on-air. (And by the way, I did find your tone just that – as apparently you did mine – so apologies, there is a lot of heat all around in this debate).

Ding dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead. The wicked witch is dead.

I think Sandilands, O, the producers, the station are appalling showing themselves incapable of understanding issues surrounding rape and child sexual assault/abuse and are now casting themselves as the victims. I am supporting actions taken by advertisers. Now that Channel Ten has removed Sandilands I can start rewatching Idol.

Whilst I do not condone what Kyle and Jackie O did, we must be careful abuot taking the moral highground on this issue and talk about boycotting a particular network. This opens up a huge can of worms:

a) Underbelly glorifies gangland / criminal behaviour. Therefore boycott the network
b) Channel Ten air Californication – whilst it is only one show, the fact that the network shows it whilst maintaining it runs family shows. How can a network state that they have family shows and ‘adult’ shows.
c) Boycott ralph and Zoo and similar magazines as they portray women as sex objects
d) Merrick & Rosso, whilst funny on air, their standup comedy is quite in your face. Therefore boycott DMG radio

I know i might sound like a naff person, but we really need to be careful about taking the high ground on some subjects and not on others!!!

Yes K&J are idiots and said some dumb things, but they didn’t glass anyone! And further more if the segment was so offensive, why didn’t people complain about it when it first started. Blind Freddy could see that something like this could potentially happen.

sorry where do you work? are u advertising your work under kyle and jacki o headlins?

I work in agency land…and no i don’t advertise on 2day…

Corporate sponsors have spoken, they have pulled back, and as a result Kyle is out of a job. The obvious upshot is that sponsors have figured out that commercial radio is a putrid stinking pile of filth.
It needs to be shut out! Personal opinon only…

Nice work – now all we have to do is devout a little more time to getting the sponsors to avoid Austereo, and go spend some dollars on community radio. Ha – like that is ever likely to happen, weven with FBi Radio…

Kyle & Jackie O’s Hour of Power is syndicated and they’ll tell you its for aimed at Adults, this so called show which is off course rubbish. Children and Teen’s listen because they want to hear their favorite pop tunes and their show is right in the Middel of children’s Prime Time 6- 7pm. These people that make a Truck load of money for disgusting cheap so called entertainment & I say that so very loosely. Get some positve persons who really care about helping people and kids with out making fools of them. Please sponsors do not support this show or radio Staion. Put your hard earned money into a rival pro action radio show!

Well, looks like I was wrong.

Optus have pulled. I’ll eat my words.

So tony…who do you propose as an alternative to K&J Hour of POWer – i’d put my money into sports today on UE

Actually Ajax, Optus have downgraded but haven’t pulled entirely.

They’re still appearing intermittently on the banner at the top of the K&JO page, for example in the early hours of this morning.

I think I’ve found K and O’s replacement – these guys take it to a new low level:

Quote:
“Outing An Online Outlaw
A TSG investigation unmasks the leader of Pranknet and the miscreants behind a year-long wave of phone call criminality

AUGUST 4–At 4:15 AM on a recent Tuesday, on a quiet, darkened street in Windsor, Ontario, a man was wrapping up another long day tormenting and terrorizing strangers on the telephone. Working from a sparsely furnished two-bedroom apartment in a ramshackle building a block from the Detroit River, the man, nicknamed “Dex”, heads a network of so-called pranksters who have spent more than a year engaged in an orgy of criminal activity–vandalism, threats, harassment, impersonation, hacking, and other assorted felonies and misdemeanors–targeting U.S. businesses and residents.
Coalescing in an online chat room, members of the group, known as Pranknet, use the telephone to carry out cruel and outrageous hoaxes, which they broadcast live around-the-clock on the Internet. Masquerading as hotel employees, emergency service workers, and representatives of fire alarm companies, “Dex” and his cohorts have successfully prodded unwitting victims to destroy hotel rooms and lobbies, set off sprinkler systems, activate fire alarms, and damage assorted fast food restaurants.
But while Pranknet’s hoaxes have caused millions of dollars in damages, it is the group’s efforts to degrade and frighten targets that makes it even more odious. For example, a bizarre July 20 prank ended with a hotel worker actually sipping from a urine sample provided by a guest at a Homewood Suites in Kentucky. Additionally, at least twice this year, fast food workers–fearing that they would suffer burns after being doused by chemicals from a fire suppression system–stripped off their clothes on the sidewalk outside their respective restaurants.

The fact of the matter is the mother is an idiot and if it was possible to not cause any distress, she should be banned from motherhood. But Kyle is obsessed with sex. Everything comes down to sex with him. Obviously he has some issues there. And quite frankly Kyle should not be asking questions when he most certainly does not have the experience to deal with an unexpected outcome. The girl answered a question and Kyle’s lack of experionce as a counsellor came through. Thank god he is off the air and about time his nasty sexual connotations are not in our face anymore. Unfortunately I suspect someone with his kind of problems will only rise to come back bigger and worse than before.

Most of you are missing the point – it should have never gotten to the ‘on-air’ stage i’m sorry. I’ve worked in London on the biggest radio network in the world broadcasting to more people then K & O would ever dream of and a stunt like that would’ve never been allowed to get past the ‘wouldn’t it be awesome if we….’ stage. I know the radio standards in Australian are a million times less then in the UK but what passes for entertainment on Australian Radio is appalling, with untalented, uneducated people being allowed to open the fader and stout drivel for hours on end. Forget the mum, forget the kid and forget the sponsors – the whole blame is squarely on the talent and management of the radio station for what comes out of those speakers and they should be held accountable and if they still have a listening audience after these current stunts then Today FM are welcome to them!! Even calling Kylie a ‘Shock Jock’ is wrong – ‘shockingly bad’ is more like it with the talent that is on the airwaves around the world..it’s truely laughable.