Are you too old for social media?
Simon Veksner asks whether the stance of some critics shows they really are too old for social media.
Obviously, ageism is a social ill – on the same spectrum as racism and sexism.
But let’s not forget that discrimination is only bad if it means undervaluing someone without good reason.
Discrimination for good reason is completely justified.
Perhaps the older generation are skeptics because they’ve heard it all before. Something about TV killing radio, blah blah?
I think the general criticism seems to be the endless proclamations never seem to actually appear? And that there’s a lot of so called experts out there (yourself excluded) who make all sorts of claims based on quite literally nothing.
Social is alive and well. Digital is alive and well (the recent hysteria over adblockers not withstanding). But so are a lot of other things, all working in harmony.
Eyes, ears, brain… regardless of age, you have all you need to understand a channel, consumer behaviour and impacts \ opportunities for brands you represent.
You just need to put in the time to get your head around it. An older adult brain works no differently from a younger adult brain. A ‘digital native’ has no advantage beyond a small head start as an existing user of these platforms over an older marketer.
The Beatles are so, so superior to Hip-Hop. #justsayin
Urging to self: it’s just a clickbait premise, must resist responding.
I object to someone 62 – 64 being described as “old”. “Old” is a state of mind not of age. I am nearly 60 and still go fishing, race cars and rally. My Mum is 90 and suffering cancer and is “old”. Two people I know very well who are closer to 90 than 64 are fitter than most people half their age and get more out of life than just about anyone I know.
So cut the stereotyping hey?
Aaarghhh. Can’t resist.
Jenny Brockie ran a piece earlier this year in ‘Insight’ discussing ‘senior’ citizens who had been ripped of by online ‘love’ scammers. Clearly there are ‘old’ people, and quite possibly a lot of them, who use social media. And I don’t think they read Bob’s very, very entertaining but nonetheless relatively ineffectual blog.
Simon, this piece is facile beyond belief. You want to discuss ‘old’ people and social, don’t give us TV consumptions stats as if these two channels are mutually exclusive. There is clearly so much more depth and complexity to this issue, and you’ve just used it to validate your own sense of with-it-ness.
Which age group has the highest disposable income?
“The average person watching TV.”
I’m not ageist but…??
Pretty sure Evan Williams, Larry page, Travis Kalanik, Andy Rubin, Jef Bezos are all over 40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q37xJtuQ24w
‘I’m not young enough to know everything’ – J. M. Barrie The Admirable Crichton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqBNSMbEzI0
Yeah, no. Wrong.
Bob Hoffman’s argument is not about consumption of the various media, it’s about effectiveness (or the lack thereof).
And by effectiveness he’s not meaning soft measures like clicks and likes, but sales driving impact.
Another clickbait article from a supposed Social expert.
I’m sorry to say that the demographic breakdowns show that 29% of Snapchat users are over 35.
49% of Vine users are over 35 – and 7% of those are over 65.
The list goes on – with much higher percentages as the platforms get more popular.
At the very least do some basic sodding research before writing this stuff.
(Or learn the hard way when you present the same argument to your new clients.)
Matt, I wouldn’t go decrying expertise and then quote Vine usage.
Have to agree with Bob/13, and Gorilla have a great piece on ineffectiveness of some aspects of social media, regardless of age groups; if you haven’t seen it, an entertaining 30 min.
http://www.gorilla.com.au/on-w.....eat-an-ad/
Hi Matt. Thank you for your concern about the success of my future client presentations.
I’m sorry you felt I hadn’t done enough research before writing my clickbait article. I was quite proud of myself – there were numerous stats in there.
Oh well. Here’s another one:
The median age of a Snapchat user is 18.
(Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jj.....aring-act/)
@Simon. Incorrect. There are no stats on social media usage in your article, despite the headline. And snapchat is not the entirety of social media.
I hear this a lot: “Put a 23yo in to run your social media”. Don’t confuse consumers with producers. It’s like saying my 15yo should develop video games because he spends all his time on his Xbox.
I would take Bob Hoffman’s experience, instincts, achievements (and FACTS) over Simon Veksner’s thinly disguised shill, coming from the latter’s standpoint as the owner of a social media agency now. Even Veksner admits that Bob quotes facts while he (Veksner) bases his frivolous opinions on a “suspicion”.
Hoffman never said that social media consumption is shrinking…he only observed (and it’s borne out by facts) that there is a lot of false hopes and stories created by social media stakeholders about social media.
It’s true that people spend most of their time on social media and advertisers are naturally drawn to it. But people are not thrilled by the advertising messages they see there….simply because they are so poorly conceived and executed. And all the corruption and deliberately misleading rhetoric on social media…that’s another story.
The golden age of social media creativity are still a way off and no one has convincingly cracked it wide open, apart from a few decent efforts.
I think Veksner is still smarting from a public rebuke he received from Hoffman some month’s ago for misquoting him. To take it out in this personal, immature and, frankly, spiteful way simply shows his age.
As I scroll down this thread I see old Bruce Matchetts smiling head going up on the left column. Read what he says Simon.
If there’s a reson older people like me don’t get right into social, it’s because as you get older, you get less social i.e. you lose the neurotic urge to overshare and be liked.
Quite exasperating to read this ‘Veksner doesn’t do facts’ chat. There were SIX in my article. (Which, by the way, is in the OPINION section) and ANOTHER ONE in my follow-up comment. I also linked to the Business Insider report that is PACKED with facts. But no. That’s still not enough for some commenters. You know what, for my next piece, I’m just going to post an Excel spreadsheet, and have done with it. Sheesh.
To the guy that said I’m smarting from a put-down from Bob. I love Bob. Not sure which episode you’re referring to, since I’ve had several run-ins with him. Can’t have been the last one, though. I totally put Bob on the canvas that time. Watch the replay.
To the commenter that accused me of shilling, that’s a tricky one. In a sense, anyone who writes an article for Mumbrella is trying to sell their own view of the world. But look, at least it’s an honest one. I genuinely believe in the power of Social. Yes, the creative could be better. But the more eyeballs it gets, the more creative investment it will receive. It will get better. It has to.
The irony of old Bob the social sceptic is that he has been very successful in using social media to build his personal brand.
Mark Ritson is a good bit younger than Old Bob – 45ish I think and he is a fierce social media critic so you don’t have to be a pensioner to question social media. You just need to just look at things with an open mind and base your decision on what delivers genuine return.
Quite a long video from Ritson but has some very interesting stats and facts on media trends- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCAEbirIByc
Headline:
‘Are you too old for social media?’
Premise (or opinion):
Old people are too old for social media.
Facts supporting this premise:
‘only about 15% of Americans aged 16-24 claim to watch TV’ – television consumption statistic
‘70% of those aged over 65 (claim to watch TV)’ – television consumption statistic
‘18-24’s have begun watching 30% less TV in just the last four years.’ – television consumption statistic
‘(18-24’s) check their phones every 10 minutes.’ – device usage statistic
‘The median age of a US network viewer is 62-64.’ – television consumption statistic
‘For Fox News, it’s 68 (years of age).’ – television consumption statistic
Suggested alternative headlines:
‘Are you too young for television?’
‘Five amazing things you might never have known about American old people and television (and something about young people and their phones).’
A couple more suggestions:
If you’re going to rely on someone else’s article to bolster your premise, best you extract the salient points and facts from their piece and include them in yours. An Excel spreadsheet would not really suffice; you need to make your premise persuasive by clarifying the signal and dialling out the noise.
Yes, this internet thing can be quite exasperating, but weirdly it also provides a fantastic peer review process if the moderator is on the ball, as is the case with Mumbrella.
You want to set your own rules for what constitutes an unimpeachable opinion? Create your own blog.
No wait, you already did that. Yet here you are.
Fact: the possibilities social media are immeasurable, and every user creates a personal “line” and communicates according to the level of his or her personal literacy, regardless of age. (I’m mid-70s and still very active (and accepted)
Reminds me of a story about how when social media was nascent, Vint Cerf was doing a presentation on usage and likely trends.
When it go to the Q&A a young whipper-snapper in the audience (not knowing who Vint Cerf is) challenged his credentials because of his age and that his generation couldn’t possibly understand the internet.
Vint politely responded that his generation invented the microchip, the PC, the mouse, laser printing, the modem, the internet etc.
Then Vint added that in his generation’s spare time they put a man on the moon, so this kid better pull his finger out of his arse and get a move on.
“…but let’s not forget that discrimination is only bad if it means undervaluing someone without good reason…”. Really? What the hell are you talking about?
Who decides what the good reasons are Simon?
Hitler thought he had a good and rational reason to intern and gas jews!
This article has all the hallmarks of most writing and commentary about social media.
It is written poorly, and fumbles in the dark with muddy self serving philosophy and dangerous concepts.
Go figure hey?
This was meant for April 1, right?
As a mid sixties year old marketing consultant and uni lecturer I found this self-serving article laughable in its comparisons of the exciting world of digital with the ever morphing world of so called legacy media.
Is Simon simply touting for business?
Wow, there’s not a lot of Christmas spirit going around here is there?!
It’s pretty harsh to call out anyone as a shill just because they believe in what they’re doing – their opinion is bound to lead to an outcome that would be self interested (otherwise they wouldn’t believe it!). And Simon has ‘put his money where his mouth is’ by setting up his own thing – that’s proper commitment.
Simon – I’m not sure ‘oldies’ like Mark Ritson’s are saying ‘all social media is shit’, but rather it’s been overhyped to the point that people are investing in it through faith rather than anything quite so quaint and old fashioned as clear objectives, appropriateness and ROI.
Clearly it can be a brilliant new way to engage people – but like most things it isn’t a cure all elixir and it isn’t automatically brilliant for all brands in all situations. Mark just seems to just be asking for some perspective.
I’m tempted to add my ha’worth, but these guys said it.
Ben
Perhaps the older generation are skeptics because they’ve heard it all before. Something about TV killing radio, blah blah?
No way
A ‘digital native’ has no advantage beyond a small head start as an existing user of these platforms over an older marketer
me:
Simon, this piece is facile beyond belief.
Paul E
Which age group has the highest disposable income?
“The average person watching TV.”
Bob
Bob Hoffman’s argument is not about consumption of the various media, it’s about effectiveness (or the lack thereof).
And by effectiveness he’s not meaning soft measures like clicks and likes, but sales driving impact.
On a (t)roll
I would take Bob Hoffman’s experience, instincts, achievements (and FACTS) over Simon Veksner’s thinly disguised shill, coming from the latter’s standpoint as the owner of a social media agency now. Even Veksner admits that Bob quotes facts while he (Veksner) bases his frivolous opinions on a “suspicion”.
Warren Buffet has an expression, ‘never ask a barber if you need a haircut.’
Social is important, but it is hyped beyond to sell snake oil.
“Social media tout says old people don’t get it”.
Mandy Rice Davies put it perfectly: “Well, he would say that, wouldn’t he?”
(Hands up all those old enough to remember who she was).
Older people are more skeptical of the commercial value of social media.
For Simon simply to say (see what I did there) that TV is losing younger viewers does not validate social channels as the only alternative.
The other thing I’m not totally clear on, though, is how do I differentiate between someone who has used all this stuff ever since it came about, and a ‘digital native’ who is simply someone too young to remember life without it?
*Cough* Christine Keeler and Profumo…
*Cough* Well done. Glad the Alzheimer’s hasn’t kicked in yet.
Two great models – Christine Keeler and Arne Jacobsen’s 3107.
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov......s/87.2007/
Hey Simon,
young people are using social a lot more, but one thing’s for sure, they’re not buying into the marketing. They go on there to share with their mates, not click on annoying banners.
And considering you quote the Ad Contrarian so much, did you bother to read this before you wrote your post?
http://adcontrarian.blogspot.c.....ng-or.html
Wouldn’t you just love to give this Simon a kick up the backside to wake him up. I’m in my 70s, very active, running, competitive sailing and other extreme sports. Don’t tell me I’m old Simon. Bet I could run rings around you.
Great, you’ve come to your senses and realised you’re too old to start a social media agency?
“The vast majority of social media critics are an older generation. ”
^Source please – given it’s the crux of your argument surely there’s more to it than an un-supported, un-researched claim.
Equally I can point to a young person who is critical of Social media: Essena O’Neill – who recently quit her Insta account saying it wasn’t real life. Now we’re 50.50 for young v. old critics.
Sorry Simon with slack arguments like this, and coming off the classic October line “All Facebook had to do was build a website”, I just can’t take you seriously anymore.
Stupid request, since there is no possible source for the average age of a social media critic. It’s just an opinion. Which is backed up by the geriatrics on this thread quoting the Profumo affair. From 1963.
Essena O’Neill is irrelevant – she was criticising social media’s lack of transparency, not its commercial effectiveness.
Since you are all so called social experts, why don’t you get in touch with Mumbrella and write a column for yourself… Instead this industry would rather hide behind a username and take pot shots at someone who is doing what they do.
For too long this industry would rather throw crap at people with no consideration for anyone apart from there self. No wonder the clients of this world look at our industry and treat this industry like crap. Until we start to respect our fellow peer who invest the time in trying to help, yes help our industry, how the hell will clients take us seriously and start to respect what we do instead of telling us what to do.
Everyone curiosities this industry, and no bloody wonder they do because we are too busy ripping it apart from the inside.
How about less un-constructive personal criticism and move support and constructive criticism people.
By the way Simon, liking what you are doing.
Just saying.
New Years rant over… Carry on
Dunno about social media, but you’re never too old for footnotes. The people have spoken. When are you going to start insisting on citations for your opinion pieces, Mumbrella?