Better Call Saul begins tonight. If you choose to steal it, don’t pretend you’re Robin Hood

hi tim, how do you feel about downloading if I have already paid for it. I am what is known as a super user – I have Foxtel, a U.S. Netflix sub and probably attend around 40 to 50 films a year in cinemas, including festivals.

And with all that, I still download. Why? It’s a delivery problem, not a stealing one. The technology exists that allows me to watch what I want, when I want, so FFS make it available already.

Downloading allows me to watch at my convenience.

So by your framework, I have paid to watch Saul (via Netflix) so that means I can download, right?

Until Stan puts some actual information on their website about what I am buying, I refuse to give them my bank details – even if the first 30 days are free.

Thank you.

Agree 100 per cent Tim. People who torrent do so because it’s free and easy, and then populist website like Gizmodo and Cnet come up with spurious blame games to self-justify this behaviour.

I thought I’d have a look at the website.

It seems that without starting a trial I can’t find out what the catalogue is, and whether it is available in HD, which is important to me.

That seems a bit of a joke, and as always, they keep making everything difficult.

Of course that’s the only reason. Every GoT fan justifies downloading it because they ‘can’t watch it otherwise’.

If you point out that it is on Foxtel, the answer is always “Why should I have to pay Murdoch to watch what I want”.

I guess these people assume that American’s get HBO for free then! The reality is a cable plus HBO subscription in America costs about the same as what it costs to get Foxtel plus Showcase here.

Try and point this out and you will just be responded with nerdrage. Apparently anything that isn’t free is a ripoff. I do remember the ‘good old days’ when everything was on FTA here…. usually 2 full seasons behind what was on in the US.

You get what you pay for.

Fair call Tim.

I download movies only because I can’t justify what Australian cinemas charge to see a flick, especially after travelling overseas regularly and going to their cinemas where not only is their tickets half the price, they don’t price gouge at the candy bar.

I’m ok with them gouging at the candy bar because you can choose to buy that or bring your own, but not the movie itself.

I’ll still go and see certain blockbusters at the cinema, but no where near as many movies as I would if tickets were say $10 and not just on Tuesdays. I suspect many, MANY people would do the same, meaning the profit margins would not just be the same, but be a hell of a lot higher, though I admit, that’s a gut feel based on discussions with friends at dinner, like yourself.

Having said that, when I download, I acknowledge I’m stealing, I’m not Robin Hood, my above reason is no excuse, it’s illegal and I would change my habits if the cinemas changed theirs, but until then, I’ll continue to break the law, and I know that’s what I’m doing and it’s wrong.

Want some actual reasons why I pirate television, music and movies?

Because I pay a monthly sub to Netflix and Spotify, and I’m not paying extra for stuff that isn’t on those services.

Because regularly going to the movies is prohibitively expensive once you factor in babysitting and other costs, and I don’t accept that I can’t participate in our culture just because I don’t have the money to do so.

Because I want to own a house some day, and piracy saves me money.

Basically, the risks and barriers to piracy are too low, I’m too technologically savvy to be stopped, I pay what I think is appropriate, and I have no moral compunctions about my actions. But none of the millions of us who live this way can give our real reasons because they’re not socially acceptable. If piracy isn’t stigmatised, you sure as hell can bet my reasons for it are.

I was happily waiting an extra day or two, and paying a reasonable amount for Game of Thrones, then half-way through the season someone changed the rules – probably because they figured they could milk me for all I’m worth.
It’s that kind of blatant rip-off that makes people want to pirate.
Note to Foxtel execs – because of that despicable act I will never, ever pay a cent. Even if the company was dying of thirst I wouldn’t give it the steam off my….. you know how it goes.

Great article Tim. Access, availability and price are becoming very thin arguments as the reality of the ever-increasing digital distribution options increase. The research done by the IP Awareness Foundation over 7 years shows again and again that people pirate because it’s free and, as you say, because they can. Each time an excuse is removed, somehow people find another to take its place (hence the anti-Murdoch sentiments to legitimize stealing Game of Thrones). Whether it’s putting a finger up to the studios (while supporting many behemoth businesses) or assuming that the only people harmed by piracy are over-paid actors (never used as an excuse to steal tickets to a soccer game), the net effect is that many people are starting to believe that content has no value and young Australians are increasingly getting out of the “habit” of paying for films and TV shows. Like you, I hope that this will change with lower-priced subscription services. We’ll see…

agree in principle but in practice its not yet an apples for apples comparison. ppl will still download if it makes it easier to see it on their device of choice. its not enough to make it legal and available, it needs to be where you need it when you need it. so we need an open TV app platform before this stuff really takes off. Music has shown that its possible to migrate off piracy, but there’ll be plenty of false starts along the way.

I’m always staggered that people can’t wait to see a mere TV show so they steal it instead. This isn’t life or death, it’s a TV show. A TV SHOW. Waiting won’t kill you, get some perspective.

Is this a paid post? Reads like a shamelessly sycophantic nec commentary. Let’s please stop pretending press releases from the networks are ‘news’.

Hope you’re right on value – hope BCS is worth $10 a month as there doesn’t appear to be any willingness to show the rest of the catalogue – maybe BCS is all there is that’s worthwhile.

I don’t want a subscription for $10 per month, I have enough of those with my gym, ISP, mobile phone…

I want individual episodes for ~$4 each and series for ~$17

That is their worth.

I will pirate when the show airs and then pay for it later through iTunes when it becomes available.

If each new show has it’s own new subscription service associated with it, you end up with 100+ subscriptions you need to keep track of. It’s just ripping off the users that want to pay for content.

So I need to give these Fairfax communists mum or dads credit card details just to see what I could possibly be paying for to watch?

Good luck with that kids.

Too clever by about 200%.

nailed it – and hammered many others in the process… when faced with the question why do people do things (that I think wrong or just plain selfish) the answer always seems to be the same as the one to ‘why does a dog lick its balls?’ – because it can…

forget the rationalisations, especially as you really can afford it I humbly suggest – probably a valid deductible – and yes, i hate Roop too, and yep, i paid over the mark for GOT and Mad Men, but hey, if it were my creativity and my show that I’d sweated over and risked all for, I’d like to be paid… seems only fair – and I want more please

I think a ‘What’s the plan, Stan?’ article is warranted btw

so Yep, i commend the article – and I recommend Tim’s stance too

nice one Mummy

I am a regular torrent downloader – and tonight I’ll be watching on Stan. I feel the industry is almost there with VOD. $10 a month is very reasonable.

I think this is a fair example and you make a valid point – no Robin Hood complex for this one.

Fact is, We should purchase it (we don’t/won’t work for free). Power to Stan for delivering and may they have more subscribers because of it – the availability has been a habitual torrent defense and to an extend in a global community carries at least a hint of truth.

I have Foxtel and do purchase the majority of content I watch (music through itunes) because it’s easier, better, sync’s and supports the content producers – it will take time for this transition to happen more broadly and Stan (at least for Better Call Saul) is leading this – no contract, $10/m, easy to sign up and 30 days free – would be hard to be more compelling.

I do think the providers should look to further refine their model and lower barriers to use/ offer specific program subs and then cap billing at a standard package price and I think this will come in the not too distant future as competition in the local market increases.

I subscribed to Stan without hesitation, for ten bucks a month I can cancel at any time its not a massive risk- I spent more on lunch today.

The content is great, not the latest of everything, but certainly enough to keep me entertained and I sure Saul will be worth the sub-cost alone. Getting worked up about not seeing the entire catalogue strikes me as a little precious, again – its ten bucks folks, if you don’t like it, cancel it.

The only pain is the streaming tech isn’t perfect yet (at least not through Apple TV) and every once in a while there is an error saying that a subsequent update will fix the error, not a big deal – I just run the show again and it works.

Can someone who HAS subscribed “pirate” the list of available programs here?

You also have to pay for data with Stan, which may be problematic if you want HD and they are not using an efficient means to encode it.

I wish it was possible to see what they have and terms of access -ie: is it like itunes where I can access that content forever or a window?

To those who argue that cinema is too expensive, just compare a single cinema ticket to:
Comedian Dave Hughes at the Comedy Store in Moore Park: $32
Sydney Wanderers VS Newcastle Jets: $22.40-45.85
Kids play at the Opera House: $39-$55
B-Reserve ticket to a play at the Wharf Theatre $85
Popcorn and parking – same as you would pay in a cinema for a film that has taken literally years to make, involved hundreds of people and cost millions of dollars (and many million more to promote).
Comparisons to overseas cinemas are absurd. The costs of rentals, staff and equipment in Australia are substantially higher than many countries. Most cinemas offer a variety of ways to discount tickets, aside from specific days – cinema clubs, bulk purchases, special event screenings, etc

Bloody brilliant article Tim.
It infuriates me that the same people who bemoan clients not truly valuing their work feel comfortable devaluing the creative efforts of others by stealing it.
If it’s worth watching then the people who created it deserve the recognition of your ratings and – yes – your money. It’s an unfortunate reality that a big chunk of that money has to go to the content distributors not the content producers, but it doesn’t just justify theft.

There’s a reason almost every ad for Stan spruiks Better Call Saul – it’s the only show of note they actually have on board

Illegal downloading will always exist until there is a free (but profitable) service that keeps up with market demand. There are a OTHER ways to profit from entertainment (whether it be movies, shows or music) outside of a subscription based model and Australians, above all else, flaunt this idea.

I am sure that Foxtel etc..make a killing from the ads placed in between content above and beyond the monthly subscription fee they take. I think that the subscription fees are only a small drop in the profit ocean compared to the profit they make off ads.

HULU i think had the best model around:
* Pay subscription and gain access to their entire up to date library without ads OR
* Get it free and get served ads – which you personalise!

Either way the company made money and the user got the choice of what they wanted to do…the only issue that stopped me from using HULU personally was simply that it didnt update early enough & as many Australians would agree…getting shows a week or even a day late with our modern technology…simply isnt good enough.

Stan needs to have an AMAZING offering to get people to pay for content…and with the likes of Foxtel here, Netflix and HULU overseas holding the BIG digital content distribution deals with CBS, NBC etc…i dont think Stan will be able to change much.

If the networks want to take the piss then so will the consumers. Paint it any way you like but a service that’s “getting better at fast-tracking” isn’t good enough. Paying Rupert and his boardroom of money-hungry dinosaurs $100 a month isn’t good enough. Get the service here ON PAR with the US and then we will talk. $10 doesn’t seem like much but considering the catalogue on Stan is no doubt pathetic in comparison to say the US Netflix, the value proposition is weak. Get off your pedestal. Sounds like Rupert has already got to Mumbrella…

I download the show as it becomes available and pay for it later with my Foxtel subscription.

If it wasn’t for the downloading, do you think that Foxtel would worry about “Fast Tracking”?

And don’t the adverts kill the flow of the show!

You guys are missing the point.
It is the ease with which content can be downloaded.
You can download a free torrent client, install it, visit and index site, and start downloading a movie (or something) in about half a dozen mouse clicks.
Then watch it when you want, where you want and on whatever equipment you have.
Compare that with the hoops you have to jump through, the overpricing, and the play-back restrictions on a world class website like iTunes.
Yes – it’s theft. But it’s theft of the same magnitude of overstaying a parking metre, or shutting up when you’re undercharged by Woolworths.

Great piece. It’s a fairly straightforward business equation. The more revenue generated by content producers (Murdoch included) then the more funding is made available for future development of programming and the fostering of good writing talent. If the industry doesn’t make enough revenue to fund diverse projects across all platforms then it’s us, the audience, which suffers. Anyone who has tried to raise finance for a project understands how competitive development funding is. The less financially successful a project is when it’s eventually distributed only makes the job of a writer, director or producer harder. Theft is theft.

I agree and like other went to Stan’s website (great free?? plug from Mumbrella) to see what sort of content would be available only to see just a handful of TV shows, movies and mention of documentaries.
How hard is it to have a link to a list that is updated as needed?
Just makes me wonder about signing up. Free trial, no lock in contract and $10 / month sound good and I will sign up tonight!

Bucks is back #7, if you have an account with Telstra or Optus, their rewards programme gives you all the movie visits you like for $10 each.
Give it a go, and give up the life of crime – stealing movies is just a gateway to hard drugs and murder!

I wonder how people have even heard of Stan.

The torrenting culture won’t change overnight. However, the options available in Aus are terrible. Once they improve, torrenting with decrease. US has netflix, hulu, amazon instant video, cheap movies and most tv channels put shows online (sometimes you have to sign in with your cable company, but cable is also cheaper). This is what i use now that i live in the US. I think you need to give torrenters more credit. People realise that for good tv/movies/music to stay around, we need to pay.

I just can’t deal with ad’s – cinema, free/pay tv and VOD all saturated with ad space, no ad space on the BitTorrent app…

Happy local media companies have finally woken up to SVOD 🙂

If there are three services at 10$ each I’m totally cool with all interesting content, I’ll pay 30/mo. I just want on demand… can’t believe it took the fear of Netflix for local media companies to launch with compelling pricing/content…

Well, better late than never

Totally agree with you Tim. I have friends who refuse to pay for any content. No matter how cheap it it or convenient it is to acquire.

There are heaps of Aussies like them. Including people who work in television. You can’t argue with them. They don’t want to know.

http://televisedrevolution.com.....-subscribe has a complete list of every movie & TV show on Stan (at the time they wrote it anyway) for those asking for a complete list.

Its basically boils down to the “skimpy business model” argument. You were wearing a skimpy business model, therefore you were begging to be raped.

Its all fun and games until you are on the receiving end.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Better Call Saul is, strictly speaking, not just a prequel – it takes place before, during and after Breaking Bad.

Hi Tim,

I agree, the ten dollar price point is hard to pass up when so much is promised.
The reality is somewhat different.

I signed up for Stan straight away, but sadly from the very beginning it has been an exercise in frustration, from the requirement for Silverlight (an exercise in itself) and then when I finally got it going, managed to watch only a few minutes before the whole thing crashed.

I am pretty tech savvy, so I can’t imagine what the “Mums and Dads” will experience.

It needs to be a smoother experience before I go past the trial period (I am hanging in there for a couple of weeks). But it does come back to being ale to actually consume what you pay for…

If the show I want to see on Stan crashes three times, should I feel justified in downloading out of frustration and watching at my leisure….??

I am sure things will improve and this is a step in the right direction.

Cheers

Bob

wait so it’s ok to break the law because I am being hard done by some media owners and I can’t watch a show when i want or the cinema chain charges too much. Seriously people get a grip and get a life.

At the end of the day you are a common criminal by breaking the law. By the rationale here is that I should be able to walk into a Bentley showroom as I like the delivery of a Bentley than my Datsun 180B and screw Bentley as someone else is paying full freight etc.

Petty common thieves…

Is there any “paid” or “subscription” service that will allow me to download content in a .avi or .mp4 file, then copy that file on to any device I want?

I’m not interested in streaming as I only have ADSL2 and my router is a long way from my TV, so it’s a bad experience.

Squashing excuses for piracy aren’t simply a matter of bringing one new media provider to market. We can watch a bunch of stuff on free to air TV, and that doesn’t keep everyone happy.

This self-congratulatory effort does nothing to address the situation of piracy in Australia. It’s claimed that this will expose all those pirating Game of Thrones as the nasty frauds that they truly are, but the only solution offered is to watch a totally different show, on a new paid service (Game of Thrones is nowhere in the Stan catalogue).

Issues of poor quality of service, geographical availability of services, and artificial segregation of content pools remain.

What solutions does the author suggest? Should everyone subscribe to Stan and then ALSO to Foxtel for the one show that is Foxtel exclusive they want?

Try harder.

I see it being a problem of convenience and price.

You need this service at x per month for this show, this service at y per month for that show, foxtel at z per month for the rest of the shows. Then add PPV sporting events etc

Your x per month service only lets you watch it on laptops, and is streamed, non HD. Your y per month service is true on demand HD but no 5.1 surround sound – etc etc.

Whereas illegally downloading you get to choose exactly what you want and can watch it wherever and whenever.

I don’t torrent, I subscribe to Foxtel and buy Blu rays but I don’t think we are there yet with a service that comes close to illegal downloads for pure ease of use. That and people want everything for free these days 😉

Tim, great article.

@ Vettel. I look forward to the day you get that house you have waited so long for … partly financed by digital piracy.

So, I assume you will be fine when your house is broken into and the TV, your computer and modem are stolen because some crook wanted them to flog off at the pub to raise money to buy a house.

So, because Game of Thrones is available on an expensive service bundled with an avalanche of dross I neither need nor want, there is no justification for piracy? The claim that GoT is broadcasted here and in the US simultaneously is false as well. It broadcasted here at 3 pm, by which time I was partially through my second viewing of each episode. Stan has my curiosity, but my experience trying to stream content on the service has been patchy at best, despite having a strong internet connection. I can only speak for myself, but I am willing to pay a reasonable amount for HD content that is available simultaneously or shortly after the original broadcast time, on the proviso that the stream itself is smooth.

I think a big factor at play here is that piracy as a crime has been socially acceptable for a long long time.

I know when I first started pirating, it was very much an environment where large companies who controlled distribution extorted their customers because they could, or because they always had ($30 for a CD, of which 1-2 tracks were good but all the rest was filler? Please.)

Along came this disruptive technology which completely undermined their business model, and rather than adapt to the times and find ways to combat this by making their own products more attractive, a lot of these companies instead tried to prosecute their potential audience – and of course, they got overrun by the tide of people flocking to illegal downloading.

I suspect the social norm of downloading will take a while to turn around. It’s obvious that more and more companies have changed their approach to focusing on attractive services, it will just take time for consumers to catch up.

I myself now subscribe to Netflix USA and to Spotify, and love them. These days by and large the only music I get, I tend to download from Bandcamp, or purchase as downloads direct from labels. The services have more or less caught up to what it is I’m looking for as a consumer.

The ongoing success of services like Netflix, Spotify etc is testament to the fact consumers will support it if they see value, and over time I would imagine illegal downloading will become increasingly marginalised as legitimate, HD, virus free/safe content is available at reasonable price points.

I’m not sure it’s reasonable to think that “here is Stan, now that it is here all people must immediately cease their current behaviour”, I just don’t think that’s the speed at which people work. I’d suggest though that this model of direct to consumer streaming will absolutely increase in prevalence over time, though I’d also imagine that the Australian market won’t be able to support all of Stan, Presto, QuickFlix, Netflix etc.

My bet is it consolidates to a couple of dominant players, which in the intermediate to long term futures will grow to be pretty damn well supported (as long as the content remains high quality and recent).

Also, just quietly, very excited about Better Call Saul!

All these analogies you are all coming up with are so off the mark. Whether you like to admit it or not, stealing from a multi million or billion dollar corporation IS different to stealing off some regular Joe. If that regular Joe took advantage of you as much as these networks do then he deserved it anyways. There will always be torrenters who will never pay but there are so many consumers who are just waiting for value. Stan is a step in the right direction but it’s still got a long way to go.

I’m a torrent fiend… and I love it, not trying to justify anything.
Free movies / TV series / music are great!

Good article Tim – torrent pirates shouldn’t come up with creative excuses – like Nike says, Just Do It.

I look forward to Episode 2!

So, Tim, you watched the first two episodes of Better Call Saul for free … ;>)

It’s going to be a long time before we have internet infrastructure that can support everyone streaming legally anyways…

My argument is simple: all creative acts are about the creator, not the consumer. The only worthwhile purpose is “I do it for myself. It gives me pleasure”. What happens after the act of creation is something no real artist cares about. I have had entire books ripped off … and, frankly, I don’t care. Wikipedia has plagiarised me literally hundreds of times … and I don’t care. If that is my standard then I feel quite happy taking whatever I like and downloading it. It is about sharing creativity. Nothing more. Nothing less. Anyone who argues against that is just caught up in the old capitalist – “everything has a price” – notions of greed and profit. I know exactly where you sit in this argument, Tim. You are basically no different to Murdoch … but you don’t have the courage or honesty to admit it.

The high levels of piracy are a symptom of the delivery model being broken.

Sure, there’s a group of people who will always take things for free just because they can, but these people don’t matter. They don’t matter because they were never going to buy your product anyway; they will never be your customers; them consuming your electronically-delivered goods (or not) is meaningless. This is a small group of people, who do not matter to your business.

The majority, however, are quite different. They pirate where they don’t have access to appropriate distribution or pricing, but are more than willing to pay (what they consider) a fair price where they do. These people are potential customers. Foxtel in its arrogance or stupidity has lumped them in with the other lot, and they are exactly the people that Stan is going for.

Will be an interesting few months.

well done Tim

the simple answer is that Australians are convict thieves by geneology who have hijacked our country’s socialist, victim narrative that pits the worker against the capitalist pig, and is wheeled out to justify everything from welfare bludging to refusing to make a fair contribution to our world-class medical services

“Yes i’m stealing it but you made me do it because you actually want me to pay more than 10c for content which cost $1 million to make. How dare you. You’re lucky i don’t charge you for stealing your content”

In 2013, you could purchase the entire season of GoT from iTunes and play it back on your Apple TV for around $3.50 an episode – about $35 all up in HD.

In 2014, Fox made a deal so that wasn’t possible – instead you had to pay more than $60/mth for a package that included GoT. (as contracts are minimum 6 mths I’m pretty sure that’s more than $100 or so…)

It becomes harder and harder to avoid spoilers – I mean, you did see what actually happened right all across the pages of news.com.au in what I assume was a deliberate tactic to force people into subscribing?

I wonder what the difference was between 2013 and 2014 when it came to piracy…?

One other point – your argument assumes that Australians have access to a decent enough internet speed to stream content which is clearly untrue – just ask those living just outside metro areas, such as on the Sunshine Coast.

The ability to download content (whether from Google Play/iTunes or by torrenting) gives these users the means to access content that is not otherwise available to them, even if they were to subscribe.

Oh for heaven’s sake. There’s finally a streaming service for a price I can afford and it needs a CREDIT CARD? Don’t have one. Don’t have a Debit card either, don’t think my bank offers it and even if they did, there’d doubtless be fees so I’m really not interested in having a Debit Card. Is there some intelligent reason they can’t do Direct Debit without blasted cards? Surely you could prepay or something. Oh wait, that’s right, everyone’s a well off yuppie living in a big city, with a 600k mortgage, 2 cars and both partners in full time $100k a year work so therefore everyone has credit cards. Thanks for nothing.

Really Geoff? We don’t get out of bed in the morning for $100k!

to those who pirate content, you are a bunch of thieving self righteous bastards. How do you think great content gets made? Someone puts up a shitload of cash, with a very low chance of ever seeing that money again. So on the rare chance a tv show or film is moderately successful, which will mean you peasants will actually want to make the effort, and makes a profit, which God forbid then gets rolled over to make something else cool, you all come along and say, well I can’t download it legally at 6.01am on a Tuesday when it suits me, it’s ok to steal it.
I can’t buy a beer at 12 05 am after the pub shuts, does that give me a mandate to go steal one because I think I deserve to be able to? It’s just one beer, lion Nathan and the publican won’t mind.
If I walked into your place of business and took one of your products, whatever it may be, and you got sacked , how would you justify that?

@benross….

Somebody took their angry pills this morning!

(flips on uTorrent in background)

Considering that the only cable provider in this area is comcast, and their cable bill can run upwards of 90 bucks a month (this is without premium channels mind you) and i only want to watch 1 show that airs on cable, game of thrones (which is an additional 12 bucks a month, HBO) you’re looking at over 100 dollars to catch ONE show. I’m not taking a moral stance or justifying it, I just don’t want to pay it. I do however always buy the dvd sets when released which still comes out cheaper than 100+ bucks to watch a single show.

@benross

There is absolutely no reason that the networks and content creators can’t make a tidy profit, while still charging FAIR prices and delivering content in a timely manner. Netflix in the US has already proven this model works. While there will always be thieves, there are a great number of consumers who will pay, if they feel they get value. You’re forgetting that people are stealing from giant corporations, not a mum and pop corner store. I’m not saying theft is right but have some perspective.

Firstly, I’d like to be on $50k a year, much less $100k, so you clearly understand my point. I don’t resent those on high incomes, they’ve doubtless earned them (standfast politicians) but the distance between comfortable and poor is widening daily.
Secondly, streaming would be an issue here too, ADSL 2 in regional areas won’t work at anything like 5mbps that Stan stipulate as necessary for HD. If live streaming is the only option that probably won’t work for me here, I can’t reliably stream YouTube above 720pixels and sometimes not even that, but I’ve no doubt we won’t get any discount for having an inferior service and no, the NBN won’t be here for about six years at least… if it ever makes it this far. Some areas are still on dialup because ADSL won’t be available til 2025 (seriously – Georgetown SA is one) I’d assumed we’d be able to download the content, presumably with some DRM that cause it to ‘expire’ after 24-48 hours – IIRC Telstra use something similar with their TBox service. This is NOT the USA and we don’t have cable everywhere and probably never will, the proprietors of Stan probably don’t care, as long as they get Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane on stream, the rest of us don’t matter.

Right then smartarse, tell me how I am to legally acquire a show that only got a “best of” release? What kind of dick move is that? Why not release the entire series? Sure I could buy what is released but what about the missing episodes? How else other than downloading am I going to get what they won’t release?

I signed up for Stan- problem free install for me. Happy with the price. Heaps of content to keep me going for a long time. Just watched Wolf of Wall St, watched Skyfall. Watched a great doco on Banksy. Watching doco on Whitlam that i missed when it was on ABC. Have teed up Fargo TV Series next. Also want to watch Transparent tv series (won a Golden Globe so am keen to see it). Going to binge on Breaking Bad before watching Saul… thatll get me through to next summer.

Needless to say, I think the content selection is pretty good.

@ Sheezy – What if Mom and Pop run a very successful corner store? Have paid off their mortgage, go on nice holidays and send their kids to private school? Would it be ok to steal off them then? They could afford it probably.

What about if they run a franchise like 7/11 or another big corporation? Ok to steal off them or not?

These big corporation will also own other assets like computers, printers and projectors – I assume you would steal these too?

What about if pops runs the corner store, but mom works at a big corporation to help pay the bills, but her job relies on generating sales of a show on DVD? Still ok?

Just trying to work out your perspective on stealing.

Some incredibly selfish attitudes there. You want to buy a house so can’t afford it so consequently you pirate? Good grief. For this on the creative side, I bet you would soon whinge if a rival copied or pinched your idea. I know of one regional magazine that was pirating Adobe InDesign as “we are only small and Adobe won’t miss it”. In the meantime the director of the company was selling knock of PS3 titles on the sly.

Bah! It’s a product owned by someone else. You have NO right to steal it. What makes you so arrogant that you think you have?

@ Derek AKA corporate slave

For one thing I did already mention that I didn’t say theft was alright…

But perhaps I’ll answer your question with another question. OK so MUM and Pop own this corner store, but they contact the only milk supplier that can service that area. They negotiate a deal where they will be the only store that can sell milk in the area. Eventually the other stores go out of business (because what good is a corner store without milk?). They then decide to charge $1107 per carton of milk. Customers have no other choice but to pay the extortionate price or go without.

Some of the local street toughs manage to pick the stores lock (without doing any damage to it) and flog a few cartons of milk….

Yes this is theft, which is morally wrong – I’m not denying that; but when faced with the incredible greed of Mum and Pop, who barely registered a dent in their profits, it’s not the worst thing you could do.

What I’m trying to say in a roundabout way is I don’t think the crime itself (relating to stealing content – not breaking and entering etc) is the issue. The real issue is how the consumer has been taken advantage of for so long and now that we take the power (and profits to a small extent) back, the networks kick up a stink. Whatever happened to the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? I’m sure Murdoch hasn’t had to downsize his house because of this.

Alot of people here are comparing stealing a digital file of content (for which an infinite amount can exist) to stealing a car or house. This is a totally different thing. If yous steal someone car, you take that away from them. If you download an episode of Game of Thornes, others still enjoy their copy regardless. The only ones you’re stealing from are the networks. Netflix US is still buying and producing content so it’s not like the content creators miss out. Yet they still provide an excellent service without ripping consumers off. I’m sure as hell enjoying my paid subscription.

Stan is a step in the right direction but we aren’t there yet so you can spare the preaching for now.

@ Lori
Bad Arguement. A movie is made once and the are not recreated at each showing and the ‘entertainment’ is not unique to each viewing. If I was complaining about the cost of going to a Live Theatre play, then your comparisons would be valid,

But I wasn’t, so they are not. Better get back to managing your ushers and candy bar staff.

@LW
Yeah I can get those discounted tickets, but it requires a financial commitment in advance, so I cant just turn up and pay $10. Not to mention those tickets also usually have conditions applied (not on Saturday nights, sometimes no free list movies, etc).

But you’re right on the last point and I’m already at the ‘Hard Drugs’ phase 😉

@Sheezy & David Hague…

While those are lovely analogies, you cant change the fact that plenty of the content we want simply ISNT available.

Thats how I justify rampant torrenting – jump on board, you’ll enjoy it!

@Sheezy

What if you a lowly ‘storm trooper’ working for one of these big media corporates like Fairfax, News, Apple, Telstra and your job depended on the sale of a TV programme either as a download or a subscription?

Is that person at fault for supporting their family by working for a big corporation or you for stealing the show?

You seem to like TV shows more than you like real people.

Love, Corporate Slave xxx

Cheeky & Ladish

I can’t afford a Lambo but I don’t go and steal one. What people seem to forget is that you are only buying a licence to view it. You DON’T own it.

Sheezy, there is a flaw in your argument.

Milk is a commodity. There are many, many milk producers and co-operatives.

There is only ONE producer of Better Call Saul. Whether you like it or not, they (and/or their backers and agents) own it. They get to control who gets to broadcast it, re-broadcast it, and retail it. They can also ‘name their price’. Just because a consumer does not like the price doesn’t mean that they can steal it.

@ Derek – Director of Public Relations, The Man

I might have some “stick it to the man” ideals but I’m not living in a dream world. You gotta make the dollar to survive. Who’s to say I don’t work for one of the companies you mentioned? I’d like to clarify 2 things. 1) The everyday man working for one of these companies is a non issue. It’s the fat cats up top who are playing us for fools. 2) I’m not against paying for downloads or subscriptions (I currently pay for a few US based ones and am trialling Stan). I just want a fair price and delivery in a timely manner. This has proven to be possible, while still being profitable for content creators and networks.

I love people. I can’t have a debate with a TV show. There is nothing wrong with questioning or challenging things just because “that’s the way they are”. If we didn’t then women still wouldn’t be able to vote and slavery would still be mainstream…

I think I’ve made my point enough.

Warmest regards,

Torrent Hood
Man in bytes (see what I did there?!)

My favourite is the person above who claims they know exactly how much each episode or series is worth and won’t pay a penny more. I’m sure those prices would decrease the moment that became a reality, since the model for Better Call Saul is already lower than that.

Of course with the arrival of Stan and soon Netflix we’re going to have a different issue – before you could have gotten all of your content on Foxtel for $45/month including premium drama, now you’ll need Foxtel, Stan AND Netflix to get all the big shows. So congrats to all the moaners, our fragmented market will now be a lot more like the crap they have to deal with in the US and more expensive for it.

At least with the Liberal government handicapped there’s a good chance they won’t want to piss off the electorate any more than they already have by imposing stricter piracy laws, so this buys everyone a bit more time to download everything for a little while longer.

@Sheezy / Torrent Hood…….. Solid work, couldn’t agree with you more! So many people on this thread are getting on their high horse regarding ‘theft’. Despite all of you who bought into that ad the start of all those pre 2009 DVD’s (You Wouldt Steal A Car, etc) its definitely not the same!

Give us affordable content that is on demand….. or continue to navigate the high seas of torrent piracy.

(Arrrrr!)

Stan’s whole pitch and platform is promoted and built around 2015’s version of “Joey”… have a look into the other content we’re getting for $10 a month – basically just re-runs of old movies and TV shows.

Given how much decent content has already been stitched up locally in AUS, makes their offering pretty thin

I’d download a car

@jim Would you torrent a car?

Stan is so abhorrent I cannot even watch it with my multitude of devices attached to my TV. I then through I could signup with my phone and chromecast. I have to first sign up with my web browser and then use those details to login with my phone (why no phone signup?). After looking at the 2.5 stars average review with the app of course, I gave up and happily downloaded.

Im pirating because for years the major studios, labels etc have been rippig me off, time to get my own back!

As a guide, in about 1989 (im guessing there) I purchased “Stepping Out” by Joe Jackson, his greatest hits album on vinyl, at this time, it cost me $27.99 ( i know this because the sleeve still has the sticker on it.

In 1989 the avg wage was about $495 a week (not that a youngster like me was earning anywhere near that), so the album cost nearly 5% of my weekly wage.

in 2014 the average wage is $1400+ and i can buy the latest triple j like a version for $23.95 Less than 2% of the weekly wage.

F*ck you labels youve ripped me off for 20 years, pay back is a bitch.

So #offal, the artist gets nothing for their effort? Not worth it? So why get the music then? Do you expect concert tickets for free? Movie tickets? Eat at restaurants. All because you think at some time past you were ripped off?

Pathetic.

Well said Tim. Spot on!
There is no justification for what is just plain stealing. Moralise it away or not.
I’m sure that if some burglar was ducking in through your backdoor helping themselves to your tech or hi-fi gear you’d all change your tune!
If you can’t afford it, you do not have a moral right to watch it. Just as if you can’t afford a 7-star hotel in Dubai, you don’t break in demanding you should be allowed to. No, you stay in the NRMA caravan park like the rest of us.

In a certain sense and in certain cases, I think torrenting is akin to lending someone a VHS/ DVD of a movie, they watch it once and that’s it. Or perhaps recording it legally (time shifting) and allowing a friend to watch it. I have no moral issues in the instance where someone somewhere along the line has paid for it then shared it online. Here, the ‘mates’ just happen to be online and worldwide.

Other cases are immoral, but I think it is a business model issue. It doesn’t make it right to take, but the choices are crap. Plus, they are gaining a greater market who wouldn’t ordinarily have watched the show if it wasn’t for torrenting.

It’s interesting @EmmaE. That same argument was used back in the days of records and blank cassettes when I was PR for CBS in WA. Sorry, didn”t wash then and not now.

I have stan, its slow, bad quality.. so i download it from a torrent site..

Stan is new. Net-flicks Australia hasn’t launched yet.

People have been torrenting & downloading for almost twenty years due to the practices of free to air television channels.

Perhaps it would be fair to give people a little time to change their approach before castigating them for not yet realizing that services they’ve not yet heard of and channels they no longer watch have finally made content available at internationally competitive prices and at the times and on the devices that people choose to use.

It took about twenty years for the distributors to get the message, why expect the public to get it overnight?

People aren’t gonna change their behaviour overnight, particularly for products and services that aren’t quite there yet.

I cant wait until Game Of Thrones starts again…. Time to sail the smooth Caribbean waters of torrenting again!

Wish I could see the same level of outrage when:

– A huge brand takes a commercial font, modifies a couple of the letterforms slightly (in breach of the EULA anyway), and starts calling it BrandCorporateFont in a rebranding exercise and distributing it willy-nilly or;

– Huge brand finds a song/photo they want to use, band/photog won’t sell it to them so brand restages the photo or has someone else re-record the song, or;

– An agency is under-licensed for their software (or totally unlicensed).

Funny isn’t it.

Print publishers sell inflated advertising rates to their clients, based on wishy washy ‘readership’ numbers. “Whats that, $5k for a full page ad, due to the fact that your publication gets bought by 50,000 people, but is read by (insert number the publishers’ sales head wants to here…)?

Ooooh, the same ‘publishers’ who own film studios / distribution, cry foul when people do it back to them.

Karma is a bitch.

Y&Y.

You have clearly and adequately demonstrated that you know bugger all about the business of media.

@KG

Consumers have been getting fleeced for decades. Murdochs private jets and yachts and many large houses are a few examples of many where corporate greed reins free.

The rockstars used to make loads of coin, now the poor OAP’s have had to come out of retirement, because their royalties have stopped, of which, as we all know, the suits took a great cut.

Old school media companies have fleeced both consumers and advertisers for long enough and their time is up. If you do not agree, then JG, I am afraid it is you who does not understand the business of media.

LIve sport is very commercial and massive business. Make believe news, written by the advertisers and owners is not.

P.S. Musicians are now having to work harder for their crust (touring much more), as royalties dry up.

Studios and distribution can be far easier and cheaper to use in this digital era.

Y&Y, have you thought why “musicians are now having to work harder for their crust (touring much more), as royalties dry up”?

It’s the ease of digital distribution and concomitant piracy. Quod erat demonstrandum.

JG. It is because greedy corporates cannot fence the market and bleed it dry for themselves, like the good ole days.

Barrier to entry is far lower than ever before. Attend a YouTube fan fest and witness it for yourself.

Good day!

p.s. Of course unless you regard Google as a greedy corporate that is…

@Yin & Yang….. You remind me of Russell Brand taking shots at Australia’s immigration policy. Broad sweeping statements about a utopian world and what’s wrong with society. Corporate greed, Murdoch’s jets, etc…back to playing hacky sack on the uni lawn for you, son!

@Urrgghhh……

Each to their own. “Son”? Are you a Pome’? NIce win v Scotland there, you must be very proud!

Smart EDM (not email) musicians are making packets without middle men. Murdoch hates that!

Wow Y&Y. Economic turnaround in just one in a day!

On Feb 23 “Musicians are now having to work harder for their crust (touring much more), as royalties dry up.”

Now on Feb 24 “Smart EDM (not email) musicians are making packets without middle men.”

Elucidate me as to what changed overnight. Of you just have a Tony Abbott moment?

I’m all for freedom of torrenting…. not for sticking it to the fat cats, simply because it is the easiest way to access premium content in Australia!

Y&Y, you have taken this discussion way off track… ‘back to the uni lawn for you, son’.

Well said Yin and Yang, the only people in the advertising industry who dont know they are lying to, or at the very least misleading their clients are those that can only view outside from deep within themselves.

The studios stole more money from artists than any amount of pirating.

The artists have a myriad ways to get their work heard, seen and paid for, without the corporates pinching the top 95%

I happily pay to see an artist perform their work (note, the Blue Room in Perth is the best provider of theatre in Aust).

i dont need to pay a jumped up marketing asshat more than the artist, to see a show or listen to a song. and i certainly dont need to put any more money into Murdoch and his likes pockets, so that he can go and live in America, whilst controling the government in OZ.

From Russell Brand, to Tony Abbott and the mention of Uni lawns. Sweeping statements?

What is the page yield at the Daily Tele these days?

Yin & Yang…. keep sticking it to the man!
(I agree though – doesn’t sound like you work in media ha ha)

@Hipster

I certainly work in media and have done for many years.

Pages 4 and 5 of the below presentation ring true with a lot of old media publishers. The presentation is delivered by a new media powerhouse.
http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664

Have a great day.

Will Better Call Saul be screened any time soon on free to air TV?

@Jaq 9 Feb 15 2:24 pm

You said “I don’t want a subscription for $10 per months..I want individual episodes for $4 each…”

I’ve been buying my ‘Better Call Saul’ episodes on Google Play for $2.99 per episode.Then I cast those episodes to my TV using the very cheaply priced Chromecast dongle and/or view them on any of my android devices. The episodes are published promptly on Google Play each week.

So what’s the excuse for piracy now?

The real reason is many people are just too cheap to pay for content they can steal.

@Stephen Preston…

You are correct, people are to cheap to pay….. but who really cares when its free??!!!

Fuck you, Tim Burrowes. Torrents aren’t stealing. Go fuck yourself

As a result of this article, Mumbrella is the 3rd result on Google for the search:
‘Better Call Saul Torrent’
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=better%20call%20saul%20torrent

It appears I have come into this debate quite late, but I will say this:

Studios can limit the flow of piracy using specific technical measures. I cant be bothered going in to them, but I have a theory most of them condone a little piracy, as it brings their shows to the ‘unwashed masses’.
This provides a bit of spark, a little bit of watercooler convo if you will…. and prompts the rest of us to legally purchase.

Give a little, get more. If you steal, your marginally helping the studio… just chip in when you get a little more on your yearly salary!