Media agency staffer tells sales reps: we can’t see you til next year

Good to set expectations early – no harm here, how’s it news?

I dont know, while maybe not appropriate to send an email out this is a very real problem facing a lot of planners and buyers.

You simply cant accept every meeting where reps want to:

– Catch up and get an update on your business
– Try to sell you something thats completely not appropriate just because they think “Its a good fit”
– Just need to get their sales call up to cover their asses in a sales meeting
– Need to get their K’s up on their car allowance
– they saw your ad somehwere so why isnt it with them?

While a lot of meetings with media reps are usefull and informative and do help, there are a heeck of a lot that are essentially a total waste of time. Reps come in unprepared, uninformed and are really just trying to get some $ rather than offering anything that may actually be on strategy or of benefit to the client.

As a rep I just wonder if this is the best thing for their clients …

Dont both agencies and reps aim to satisfy the advertising outcomes of clients ?

If opportunities are missed then its the clients who suffer and this just undermines the relationship between all parties.

We’re all busy people in this industry but we also profess to be communications oriented … lets make sure we do effectively.

Will they be accepting invites to Xmas parties?

Poor Carl, you can have lunch with me anytime buddy.

I agree with Cam. iPlanner can lament that “reps come in unprepared, uninformed and are really just trying to get some $ rather than offering anything that may actually be on strategy or of benefit to the client”, but maybe thats a consequence of planners not taking meetings….

Cam, unfortunately the life of a sales rep vs. the life of anyone who works at a media agency, are just not the same… you guys appear to do 8hr days (which is awesome, wish I could too), however most of us media agency crew need to do much longer hours.

Santa, all work and no play makes for a very boring existence… lets be realistic here!!

And I have to say, shame on you mumbrella for publishing an email that wasn’t even directed to you…

sounds like a junior taking matters into their own hands … wouldn’t want to be them right now.

i am sure s/he still has time for lunches at cafe sydney, facebook and concert tickets etc … but doesn’t have enough time to see ‘media partners’

Shame on Mumbrella for publishing this. SHAME

I dont think there was any need to publish this email. This is not directed to Mumbrella and therefore is not public information.

At the end of the day, agency people are busy and yes it does take up a lot of time having reps come in to update on things that are not relevant to your client.

Its about having meetings with the right people and making time for those presentations that will add knowledge and insight to your work.

Sales companies need to be aware not to send out reps for the sake of it. Reduce the amount of meeting targets they have will help for both sides.

And shame on you mumbrella for publishing an email that wasn’t even directed to you…. and for then deleting my comment

Seems to me that there are fair points on both sides.

As an agency person, I get an increasing number of calls from reps both online and offline. And often these calls are from people, places and publications I’ve barely or never heard of. I find it really, really hard to justify the time to see them all. But I have something of a system:

Ask them to send a summary of who/what they are over first including why they want to see me. If it’s relevant and interesting I see them, if it isn’t I tell them why and file it.

But I do feel for the reps as a lot of places seem to have high turnover and the new rep from wherever will call and seriously, I just can’t see them or entertain that.

It’s a hard but fine balance to strike. We can’t forget that we help the reps make their budgets and keep their jobs, and they can help us keep our clients and jobs when something goes wrong.

So I guess MEC digital reps will be too busy to accept lunches from publishers, or Xmas parties. Poor things…..

Shame on you for publishing an email that wasn’t even directed to you

Sorry for all the shame messages.. thought you’d deleted them

This is digital, where technology removes the need for human interaction. There must be a social media solution that solves this.

Here’s an idea: How about sales people leave a recorded video pitch via Facebook with the ‘promise’ that every pitch will be viewed (by at least the receptionist).

I think the Dr has nailed an important point, and that is, the high turnover on both agency and publisher side means that although there is a roundabout of meetings required, much valuable time is lost in the “getting to know you” palava rather than the “I know your times valuable, here’s the pitch” which is kinda what everyone wants to hear.
Still I maintain, irrespective of the clock watching that goes on at publishers (cough cough We need Balance), face to face meetings are the forums that get good ideas off the ground and into clients faces … they gotta happen so lets make em effective.

Well it was an email directed to publishers, and I am pretty sure mumbrella monetises the site through ads, so I’d argue they could publish it.,…

“We can’t forget that we help the reps make their budgets and keep their jobs, and they can help us keep our clients and jobs when something goes wrong.”

This is one of the saddest comments I’ve come across. No wonder the industry barely tolerate the media agencies when their public faces are people that say stuff like this with a straight face.

Your job is to do the right thing by the client. Whoever you work for would be ashamed at your attitude.

How about this: If the MEC staff didn’t spend so much time trying to astorturf this post, they could squeeze in another meeting with a rep.

its quite funny that almost all the people who have managed to spare some time to write about this completely pointless debate are actually the same really busy agency people.

1. How is it unreasonable to cut down on meetings so that staff can leave at a reasonable hour?

2. Email clearly states “if you have new sites/opportunities avaialble or have a new sell sheets / ratecards, please forward this as an email attachment along with a detailed outline of the opportunities.”

3. Isn’t this email considered confidential?

Read the email thoroughly before you make a fuss over nothing

Firstly, unsure why Mumbrella feels the need to publish where someone’s IP address is from when there is no mandatory field to say which company you work for when making comment.

Second, from a client perspective I feel sorry for people at media agencies and the demands on their time from reps. God knows I handball most that hit my desk back to the agency. And the bad reps are BAD.

Third, however, I doubt any social event invites will ever go wanting at a media agency!

@cam

Its true our jobs are to see reps its part of our job. For the most part I do enjoy seeing them. However a lot of the time you have Reps trying to decide what is best with your time and what is best for your client.

As someone who spent a long time as a sales rep and have now jumped the fence 😉 i find that reps who dont ask the right questions before they come to see you are the ones that exist in the high turner positions.

Its really simple, do your homework to avoid dissapointment.

I shall relay a brief and recent coversation. A rep called me, the 3rd to be in that role in about 8 months, to set up a meeting to let me know about their offering.

I explained i was very familiar with their product, it had been presented to me a number of times by their predecesors. They still wanted to come see me to “get across” my business. I told them i have 15mins now so lets just go through it all over the phone. They said they would prefer to do this face to face rather than over the phone… why? “dunno, its just better that way” I said that i could see them in 3 weeks (i had a number of client meetings plus 2 weeks of annual leave coming up)

His response to that was “well maybe i can see the client instead of you”

I now hear there is another new person in that role.

All Group M companies are in the same IP range. Respondents noted as “(who appears to have an MEC IP address)” can be any one of the businesses. Ta

Mr Mr, you miss my, possibly clumsily made, point.

I was trying to point out that the an arrogant/superiority complex attitude from agency staff (which is how I see that email) toward the media is wrong. The example I was trying to use was a relationship one where often an agency will need the assistance of the media to make right a situation that by no fault of the media, is wrong. And if you can’t be bothered seeing them, well, then you’re in trouble.

Yes, of course client objectives are first and foremost, however this discussion is about the relationship between rep and agency.

Interested to learn that the industry barely tolerate us though. Certainly not something I’ve ever experienced in any of our agency relationships with clients and media.

I actually think that this is a sensible way to deal with a problem before it gets out of hand. I work for a publisher that recieves briefs from this agency at 10pm at night (when we’ve all gone home). If this short term measure has to be put in place to allow them to re-staff and get back ahead of the game then soo be it.

They are still open to recieving any vital new info via email and I for one always receive a response from the AM in question even if it’s a knock back. This therefore negates the need for me to get in front of them every five minutes.

This measure is only going to upset sales people who have weekly meeting targets enforced upon them by thier bosses….. you know who you are!

Oh please – having worked client side at an agency this email is just voicing what pretty much every agency person has thought but never said.

To the reps trying to justify their posts – sure there are a few out there who genuinely care about coming up with great ideas that will benefit the clients, however 90% of the reps are chasing a budget. The sales mantra is that of a “numbers game” the more clients you see, the more responses you get, the more responses you get, the more times you might hear “yes”.

Plus when your manager sits you down to do your WIP you can at least say you harassed 20 people that week.

shame on you mumbrella!! why dont you reveal who passed the email to you

Let’s pause and look at other industries for a second…. pharmaceutical sales reps who want to ‘detail’ their drugs to doctors plan their sales calls A YEAR in advance..if you don’t get in the diary forget it…. busy people who earn their revenue by selling their time have the need to limit their non-billable hours….

that is a terrible comparison 31

I believe most clients assume their agencies are speaking to the media. after all – most still call themselves media agencies – and most are rostered to make sure their client extracts the best media opportunities available.

I can completely understand why an agency person feels this way but to hammer the market with a BCC was the wrong approach and won’t do them any favours with clients.

media agencies and media vendors should either duke it out or hatef*ck or whatever they need to do – neither party particularly likes the other and generally it’s the marketing directors/brand managers copping the consequences of this horrible marriage of convenience.

WOW!!! i see a lot of hate here guys! nothing wrong with meeting up with reps if RELEVANT- there are some bad apples that ruin it for other reps fo sho!

Mr Mr not sure where you getting this view from but at my agency we get along very well with the vast majority of reps and media outlets.

Media agencies are there as a Filter for clients and i know mine value the role I do for them there. My clients also know i am constantly talking to all media all of the time on their behalf. They also respect my right and ability to time manage my day and not see people that wont bring value to their brand or campaigns.

So does this prove MEC as an irrelevant agency??? Are their clients fair game for direct meetings??

@Anons sales rep

see its that sort of attitude that does give reps a bad name.

why make the assumption that their clients are not 100% across this and back the decision.

I know my client hate hearing from reps who think they can circumvent their media agency. dont forget they put us on for a reason. its so they dont have to deal with 500 reps coming at them.

One word…. ‘fragmentation”

MEC, if you can’t handle it now… Get out!!
It is only going to get worse when more sites become more popular and YOUR clients want to target their ad campaign to neiche audiences. ‘mass market’ ad campaigns have had their day.

Lazy customer services will be the downfall of any business….
Be warned.

Besides, we can always go direct….

who gives a shit. Mumbrella this is not news or blog worthy. GROW UP!

Absolutely disgraceful. An advertising Agency is supposed to be an “Agency of the Media”?

These same agency people then get pissed off when reps go direct to their clients – go figure!

More of this is needed. Maybe Reps will think more carefully before wasting everyone’s time with there bullshit blah blah blah give me more money so I can make bonus crap.

less crap more substance and maybe we will need you to come in more often.

WOW – MEC, bravo!

Can you please call no reps then asking for –

1. Melbourne Cup day Tickets/event tickets

2. Use of the corporate credit card for xmas drinks

3. Ringing up saying “I didnt get my christmas gift, what gives”.

Play fire with fire!

Typical media agency arrogance.

If Publishers stood around waiting for bookings from Media Agencies they would all go broke, including the agency!

When was the last a media agency came up with an innovative idea?

We’re in a different line of business (PR agency) but the rep problem is still the same.

We had an AAP Medianet sales rep try want my entire media team to sit through one of their presentations.

The last time I did that, it was a sales pitch trying to get us to use the service more but without telling us anything more than we already knew.

We work on hourly rates- if I am going to get six consultants to sit through an hour presentation, there at least has to be some benefit to them and the business, rather than achieving the sales reps monthly targets!

Wonder how the agency would feel when budgets are down from their clients and the clients refuses to take any agency meetings for the quarter. Should the agency simply send all their proactive work and big ideas via email?

It is a bit of a boring story to publish.
Mumbrella: It seems in-appropriate to name the agency in this article.
Isn’t this confidential and also who cares about news like this.

But…this would give the media suppliers a green light to go and talk to clients direct.

Why don’t the Management of the media agencies who are struggling with a lack of staff, speak to the management of the media houses, which in turn will take the pressure off the reps for the number of f2f appointments?

Aren’t agencies and media houses meant to be working together for the good of the client?

Glad you published this Tim, but feel very sorry for the person who wrote it!

“I know my client hates having to talk to 500 reps, don’t forget they put us on for a reason”.

If only you planners actually knew that much about your clients. This is much an indictment of the system as anything else.

Firstly, a good rep will invariably know more about what a client is looking for. My ad sales people run rings aroun most planners in meetings.

Secondly, media buying companies are structurally corrupt. To make the profits you are expected, you need to hire cheap (junior) staff, and have them work across multiple clients or briefs. These people are in the game to join the “crazy world of working in ad agencies” when in fact it’s endless hours doing spreadsheets, emails and reports.

So that person leaves, and within 6 months we have another 23 y.o looking after the account and we are having the same conversations all over again.

You know it makes sense.

Agree – guys seriously we all need to take our heads out of our arses here, we aren’t saving lives or curing diseases, this is a fun industry to be in and both parties from time to time have to do things the other dislikes – just a nesseacry evil of the role/s.

This highlights one of the key issues MediaScope was created to address:-

Ad buyers decreasing resources and time combined with ever increasing choice in a highly fragmented media market

A problem that’s not going away…..

I completely agree with the email, for all of the same points all other agency folks have made….a million requests from completely irrelevant sales teams trying to talk to you about something that would not fit with any kind of strategy your clients follow.

We’re all busy, especially at this time of year [with the amount of lunching we have to do…], so whats the point in wasting BOTH party’s precious time talking about something thats simply never going to happen? Thats time you sales guys could spend chasing actual REALISTIC revenue rather than clocking up your call numbers….

Unfortunately for us “reps” (a name I personally find a little insulting!) the minority have given the majority a bad name. That being said, surely a responsible agency can sift through the bs via phone or email and commit to a meeting from there.

I’m really not sure, why this always needs to denergrate into an “Us” Vs. “Them” arguement???!

I can fully understand the comments questioning why Mumbrella has published this. However I think this arguement/discussion has needed to happen for some time.

For all the finger pointing of “reps” being unprepared and time wasting I can list multiple examples of just down right stupidity from agencies…..maybe it’s time both sides of the fence stopped the finger pointing, opened their eye’s and ears and moved forward together!!!

Interesting that there is such discontent for industry people who are trying to make a sale. Making a sale…. is that a bad thing? Sorry, thought the purpose of advertising was to make sales.

@ Sarah

Completely agree with this statement:

“unsure why Mumbrella feels the need to publish where someone’s IP address is from when there is no mandatory field to say which company you work for when making comment”

@We need balance (who appears to have an MEC IP address) – not ALL sales reps work an eight hour day… We only have eight hours to do the sale, then there are the proposals that need to be written, budget to discuss, meetings of our own…. please don’t sit on your media high horse and think that you guys are the only ones that work long hours…

Everyone’s busy, but I do think it’s our job to build strong enough relationships with key media owners so that they don’t bore us with useless information. The more we work with them as partners, the more relevant and appropriate their ideas should be, which means that no one is wasting time.

I do think it’s odd that the person who wrote this email lists information about MEC’s staffing issues, temps, assistants, work hours, etc.
Fair enough that they’re trying to take action – good on them because too many people generally work too many hours, even though I don’t agree with this approach. But it’s really none of the publishers business. If you do tell them something like this, I think it’s strange to write the details in a mass email.

Mumbrella, do you have the express permisson by MEC to publish this email. All emails from most organisations generally will have a closing statement “Not to be republished without the express permission of the organisation”.

Tell me Mumbrella did you gain this permission or are you posting something without permission?

To anonymous

A recently approached MEC client had no idea of my site or recent targeted campaign strategies I had presented to my MEC reps..

This was only done and I really mean ‘only’ when MEC failed to include my site in briefs and plans.

Hopefully MEC management will read these comments and see that just servicing the big 5 and a few other smaller publishers is not an effective way to service customer marketing campaigns and budgets.

Get to know your reps, sift through the good from the bad, the relevant from the irrelevant & bingo. And by the by, this problem of agency time management isn’t a digital problem, it’s every friggin medium – WHY? Agencies are under staffed & generally poorly staffed WHY? Because they don’t make enough $$$. Until the remuneration is improved these problems & frustrations will continue to exist.

@ Paul….I agree there are some agencies out there that don’t look at something new or vary the plan because it’s easy moeny and bookings for them, get it out of the way to work on teh bigger fish *shrugs* that will always exist.

Not sure there was a real need to publish this email as fodder but it’s opened up quite a few other valid points. Reps need to see agencies and vice versa. The larger problem is reps being trained and educated to know the different between contacting people with something relevant and just STALKING them to fullfill their sales dance card at the end of the week! All reps have KPI’s and most of them (having been there) can be a touch unrealistic…set by management who haven’t had their feet on the pavement in a long time and forget what it’s like. Meetings are important though…but more importantly there must be a point. We’re all busy people, time can’t and shouldn’t be be wasted!

The email states though that they are not cutting people off….it’s just saying there’s no chance for face to face meetings. If you have something that’s genuinely relevant for them it will be addressed.

We ALL live in a busy and fast moving environment, and we ALL have targets to achieve; media, agencies and clients, so stop with the ‘we’re busier/more important than you’ attitude.
At the end of the day it’s the client’s decision, and budget! If the agency isn’t helpful, go direct. Whilst informing the client of ‘relevant’ opportunities pass on the agency commission and Christmas gifts/lunches as well!

…in addition…Carrob…to your remarkebly arrogant statement

“If only you planners actually knew that much about your clients…Firstly, a good rep will invariably know more about what a client is looking for”

What a total crock!!

What you lot know about our clients strategies is simply what we have told you and what you have seen been done with other sales teams.

Think about it mate….what we’ve already DONE (past tense). You look at previous campaigns and think your ever-so-slightly-amended -for-your-title proposal will get across the line…guess what? It won’t. Firstly, shock horror that budget has been spent with one of your competitors, and secondly, if its been done…why would we do the same thing again???

In my 9 years working in agency land, I’ve not had a single sales rep who “gets” what we’re doing, most don’t even get it after we’ve explained it over and over and over and over….

Another case of a tosser agency freak who thinks he’s all that. We’ll just go direct to the client and win in the end…….

Don’t blame the reps, blame the minimum appointment levels set as a KPI.

Sadly – the majority of the briefs we respond to these days are based on rate – not whether your medium fits the strategy or the brief. Oh and let’s not forget “Hey – can you get me tickets to…..”

Hmm – all this dialogue n banter in work time … 🙂

EVERYBODY CHILL – and hug!

can’t believe no one has commented about the follow up email from MEC to the reps …

Why not get on Grindr – isnt everyone gay?

As a Rep I have no problem with this e-mail.

Any Rep is lying if they say they don’t hear this on a weekly basis over the phone from agencies and take it with good grace and understanding. At the end of the day agencies do not have meeting quotas and it’s not their problem that we do.

If a publisher who recieved that e-mail had such a timely/fantastic opportunity they could have replied, argued their case in writing and if the opportunity really was right I’m sure they could have got a meeting.

Why is this e-mail in print? What has this achieved?

Why can’t all just get along! It’s an age-old issue that a thread on Mumbrella ain’t gonna change.

Fact: Agencies are bloody busy and do more work for less pay than us reps. Give ’em a break.

Reps, manage your relationships better and you’ll get meetings when they’re appropriate.

@other agency guy.

That’s BS. We speak to agencies all the time who have no idea of what their client is doing. We have relationships with those clients directly, and in fact deeper relationships than most ad agencies actually have.

Just remember, your client will still be advertising with me long after you and your client have passed ways.

I will note that as someone working in an agency for 9 years, you are the exception. Not the rule. Your pitch to the client is taht you kno more about the media than they do, and the reason that they use you is to stop getting so many calls from reps.

but why don’t you sanity test your own agency? Call one of your junior planners. Say you are calling from somewhere that is tangentially useful to the client. Just see how long it takes that planner to get back to you. If they ever get back to you at all during the first (say) 7-10 voicemail messages.

So no it’s not arrogant. It’s the reality of the system that you agencies have created for yourselves,

Slow news day Tim? How can you feature this as poignant news? One week you write a piece on how under pressure the industry is and then the next you try and make a fool of someone who is clearly in need of some support.

ladies and gents – we all only hold arts degrees.

Twaddle on reps “getting it”.
I’ll run up the street in my grandmothers sunday best with my arse hanging out when I manage to get a decent brief from an agency. You give me a good brief, I’ll giveyou a shit hot response.
Briefs sent in a few lines on email “Timing…..Target age bracket…budget.”
Puhlease. You are doing a diservice to your agency and your client.
Off topic but since we’re slinging mud, thought I’d join in.

MEC reps, please take me out to lunch. It’s been ages since I’ve had foie gras.

Tim was right to publish this email and article to expose an arrogant side of how an agency is managing the client relationships.

The rep should have been smarter and worded the email so that there was no misunderstanding and secondly…. Managed the problem upwards first an not outwards. Clearly an inexperienced bad decision.

Keep up the action of free speach Tim.

Well since agencies work twice as many hours wouldn’t you have twice as much time to see reps?

Hallelujah! Some objective sense from “mountain . . .molehill” (a publisher). See the issue in perspective: the proposed “no new appointments” is only for a peak work period of barely 2 months, for the very plausible reasons that have been given.
I’d be confident that any rep, who has already established a constructive reputation with the agency would get to see their man/woman merely by sending an email of “I know you’re really busy but if you could nominate 15 minutes for a quick discussion on this XYZ . . .”.
New reps can seize it as an opportunity to establish a reputation even before they’ve met, by a non-verbal approach around ” I respect you are really busy till Christmas so could I be your first appointment in the new year on . . .?”
If you are in media/marketing it’s supposedly because you can think your way around challenges, not just bitch about them.

oh my goodness ive just wasted half an hour on this punch up.
agencies answer your phones and qualify properly before scheduling meetings. reps get agencies on side, by not wasting their time ie only go in when its relevant and if you have Nazi bosses pretend a phone call was a face to face. everyone’s a winner.
everyone relax problem solved

Media is a relationship industry – be it a company policy or otherwise this approach makes dubious business sense. Relationships get you off the hook when something goes wrong, and inevitably things will.

Burn those bridges kids…

From the vault of truthiness….

When a client says to a rep ‘call my agency..’ this is whats known as a ‘fob off’. They’re not remotely interested in your product but they’re not rude enough to say so. Media agencies spend lots of time dealing with the ‘fobbed off’.

When a rep calls and says he/she wants to come and share with you some ideas they’ve had for your client, whats really happened is they’ve cobbled together whatever dross they haven’t been able to shift, in the hopes of increasing short term revenue. If you’re lucky, they might take the time to remove your competitor’s logo from the powerpoint document…having presented it to them first.

When a client says to a rep “I didn’t even know about your site/ mag / paper / whatever”, what they’re really saying is that it’s too insignificant or too niche for their brand / strategy to care about. If it was relevant, the agency would have included it in their analysis.

When an agency person says to a rep…”We don’t think you’re right for the campaign”, this comes down to a combination of factors. Environment, reach, cost, timing, association etc etc. A ‘no’ is usually based on multiple factors…not the one (e.g. Your client has a red logo and so do we!) that the media supplier is focusing their idea on.

Reps like to say ‘can I have ten minutes of your time’? Why then, do you think I’m going to sit through your 45 minute ‘research’ document e.g. “Research proves that MY medium is the only one that will work for your client even though we have no insight into their objectives and target audience!!!!!”

When a rep calls and says “I need to come in and update you on some important changes…” agency people should make sure the critical ‘changes’ are more than a different font on the Masthead before they accept the meeting.

Senior media people are not your event planners. Don’t ask them to set up other meetings for you..group or otherwise.

Seriously, this issue is a problem both ways, but it isn’t viable to see every single person who wants a meeting. Good reps, who provide relevant, well researched information, and show some respect for the other person’s time, will have no trouble getting appointments.

They might be someone elses client by 2011 and they will want to be updated about what is happening in media

So “media” would have you believe then that the “reps” know clients best… okay keeping that in mind then, how does it reconcile with this situation:

When the XFM radio rep who for the last year has been pushing live reads, and novel integrated promotions, lands a job at Channel X and comes into the agency for the obligatory intro and meet and greet – why is it all of a sudden that TV is now the best medium and radio should just be used to “support”.

Keeping in mind that the rep supposedly knows the clients business better than the agency did they just have a overnight ephiphany that the product they have been flogging for the last year is now irrelevant. I call Bullshit.

Media reps have a similar trait to McDonald’s drive-thru workers in the sense that they always say “just 10 minutes of your time” that is always a minimum of 30 minutes.

I always fall for the drive-thru attendant saying “your cheeseburger will be ready in 2 minutes” only to be dissapointed that it takes at least 3 times as long.

Respect peoples time {both ways!} and try and add some value in a reasonable amount of time, that is all both parties can ask for!

I’ve just made myself hungry!

@Briefs?? – Right on

Bahahahahaha

Agencies vs Reps school yard antics a side for a second…….

Good email – nothing wrong with it at all!
Regardless of the industry if you are experiencing resource pressures ,are under the pump and have client needs to meet…unnecessary commitments are the 1st thing to go out of the window.

If you read the email it still leaves the door open for good props, so if you are disgruntled rep back yourself and put it down on paper, if it is good it will happen.

Tim – probably illegal showing the email…in addition the guys at CIA are clearly trying to address a work life balance (well done), so re-read your post of last week

No wonder everyone hates reps and media agencies. Good showing of trust here and respect for confidentiality….NOT. Why don’t all those fired up “i’m gonna go direct so there” reps give the creative agencies a call and go harass them?? Maybe your so called innovative solutions will actually make some difference and kill the age old war of who led the thinking???? You can write your MFA together.

Former agency opinion, amazed at the raw nerve this thread has struck:

Sadly this thread shows just how dire the situation is in media agencies, who motivate by delusion (thinking strategic, creatively, social media, blah blah blah) as a fascade for the sweat shops they’ve had to become to prop up the useless overpaid senior management they are ruled by.

Talk to anyone who moved he to work in digital from London, Longer hours and worse work. Even though it is supposed to be the opposite.

Finally, why are so many digital media agency staff leaving to join “the dark side” these days (by the way a term coined by paranoid media agency management afraid of their 50% annual attrition rates)?

Dear Mumbrella

I have worked on the sales side in media for 11 years. I understand that at times it is difficult to arrange appointments and that there are frustrations.

I have also worked on the media planning and buying side of the industry for another 11 years. I now understand the time pressures and massive workload that planners and buyers have on their shoulders. That there are well over 500 representatives who expect to meet with them and the need to make time to strategically deliver well thought out media recommendations to their clients.

Tonight I left my office at 7.45pm. My company is based on the same floor as Mediaedge, however it is an independent company. As I left I walked past a number of people from the MEC digital team still hard at work for their clients.

The digital team a couple of Thursdays ago did have a wonderful time at their pool night. The following night (Friday) after their pool night I was still in the office until 10pm and so was a member from the MEC Digital team. Finishing up much needed urgent work for their client.

I hope the banter on this topic between sales and media can bring understanding and appreciation for both sides, so that it’s a positive outcome for clients.

Mumbrella I hope you offer anonymity to all of the people who choose to remain anonymous. It would be unfair to expose some companies and let others remain unknown. I hope we can all trust in the freedom of speech that your website offers the industry. That everyone can feel comfortable in returning to Mumbrella on an even playing field.

As a client I see this as a perfectly fair piece of expectation management.

I personaly am annoyed by the high amount of media rep cold calling that I get, particularly after my name appears in trade mags linking me to my organisation/brands/spend. It always disturbs me that having blagged reception to get thru, most are not prepared and ramble randomly about an opportunity without at least constructing the opportunity to be relevant.

Good on you media buyers, this sort of level headed approach is why most on the client side TRUST our media agency 10 fold more than our creative….

I’ve always wondered whether the agencies tell the clients about the junkets they get offered. digital guys have stepped it up a notch recently, some are even getting fully paid overseas trips from suppliers looking for a few favours.

no time for 30 min meetings with x.com but more than enough time for a week long trip to europe with network y …

I’m glad the agency has told the sales people to wait till next year.

I work in the media sales arena and I feel sick in my stomach at how annoying to potential clients we are told to be by bombarding them with communication.

I personally feel I’d go crazy with if I was the person on the other line being over-communicated to by a sales person. Sometimes it quality not quantity that counts.

Look what I got yesterday:

Subject: Re: Meetings and Catch-ups

Hi All,

I understand that the email I sent to you all earlier as a courtesy has been forwarded to Mumbrella. Telling you we’re in lock-down due to volume of work is not a statement about MEC company policy and whoever interpreted it as that was incorrect.

Anyway, we’ve had a call from Mumbrella and settled the situation. The risk of this being misinterpreted and shared on a Blog like Mumbrella would effect our business and yours as we are more reluctant to be open. If the person responsible could message me, that would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

I worked at MEC a few years back and agree with Virginia’s comments. As clients began to embrace online/digital and more and more briefs called for an element of it the team simply dug in and got it done.

The fact is people with skills in this field are hard to come by so I would suggest all media agencies are stretched when it comes to their digital offfering.

And yes, I now work in sales and on the face of it we have it a bit easier

Seriously, leave mediaedge alone. Not sure if someone has already mentioned this in one of the +60 comments above (If you have the time to trawl through all maybe you dont understand how busy ppl can get in the media industry) but if an offer from a sales rep was such a good one then he or she should be able to communicate this over the phone. And if mediaedge saw enough value in that offer I’m sure they could have found time for a sales rep. People get busy and have to manage their time. And how they manage their time is up to them.

This has turned into Agency V Publisher.

Any good “rep” (also a term I don’t like) or “planner” should understand that we both need to understand our clients and work in partnership to achieve the best results. The agency needs to find a way to manage publishers who are wasting their time. So perhaps a blanket email aimed at all was not the best approach. I have worked across my agency for a few years and to be honest have a great relationship, it takes time to build trust and credibility… I do not think the above is helping anyone establish either.

Double dipping on the comment stream here – but it’s a subject I have much pondered – and even started a business to partly address these ongoing problems

All of these comments and concerns are so familiar to me having been both buyer and seller over a 25 year advertising career.

Through MediaScope, I am working hard to create and evolve a dedicated service to support both buyers and sellers in ‘connecting’ more effectively and hopefully alleviate some of these highlighted issues

I welcome the opportunity to speak with both agencies and publishers and work with you to find some real solutions – please feel free to get in touch

I have been in media sales since 1991/92. I have waited this long for you agency fraudsters to be found out. You’re all probably frothing right now in your chairs with anticipation as to where someone from media sales will be taking you to lunch today. That sound right?? Congrat’s Mumbrella.

Here is another one for you seagulls. FREE hot chips at the Greenwood from 11am till 9pm, Today only….

All this thread demonstrates is the unfortunate underlying tone in digital.

Sales ppl with a sense that they deserve revenue for simply having some inventory to flog

Agencies under staffed and under qualified who often lack the experience and analysis to make the best decisions.

This isn’t everyone, but enough to make it an issue. It’s not going away either.

Come on people!!!! A few more comments and we can knock off the Neuromarketing discussion!

Shame on you for posting this mumbrella.

Surely there’s better news out there, isn’t the world going digital or something?

My favourite comment was the post about Mumbrella “keeping up the action of free speech”.

Definitely agree that the largely middle class advertising people of the inner city of Sydney and Melbourne need to find a way to have their voices heard.

This oppressed minority shall finally be heard.

Although in this case i think the agency has done the right thing, something has really annoyed me this morning. I made a pre-arranged call to an agency to talk through a proposal that has been submitted.

The AM tells me he’s too busy today and that we must re-schedule (fair enough)

I then jump on Twitter and notice for the last hour of work time the AM in question has been tweeting away about a varierty of things including what ‘banging tunes’ he has been listening too, what a lovely coffee he had this morning and where he’s going for lunch. Too busy eh…

Agencies…..we understand how busy you guys are …..but sometimes you have to help yourselves. You can only spend your day on FB and twitter if you are ‘Head of Social media’ Dont forget that.

I have been involved in two successful new media businesses in the last seven years. We built these businesses on one simple rule , avoid media agencies go direct to client. We signed over 40 global brands via this route and any of my reps caught wasting their time initially engaging media agencies were reprimanded. Granted we had a unique product offering in both cases but I would encourage all reps with any product outside the norm, go direct, CLIENTS WILL MEET YOU. They will make quick decisions not based on commission rates, how smart your product will make them look in front of client, or how threatening your product is to their hold over client. Fact, top reps with new media product offerings go direct, try it!

we are 4 posts behind the most discussed topic, good job mumbo , at least you got everyone participated and sure your page impressions’s gone up this month

3 cold calls made direct to MEC clients – 1 meeting.

@Direct to Brand. Sometime going Direct does work, but certainly not on all occasions. go to my clients and they will just refer you back to me.

@carrob
“Firstly, a good rep will invariably know more about what a client is looking for. My ad sales people run rings aroun most planners in meetings.”

are you for real? its this sort of illinformed and ridiculous statement that really gives Media Sales both a bad name and reputation.

Have you sat in on client Brand strategy sessions? have you been involved with a campaign and brand positioning strategy from day 1? and do you sit in on weekly business WIP’s where we discuss projections sales and short term things needed for the client?

This certainly is a good robust discussion. there are also some dinosours coming out of the woodwork.

Just to clarify – meeting booked for next week….. 2010

iPlanner – ill take that smug challenge, let me know next steps.

Nearly there!!! One more futile post!

My cat’s name is mittens.

Without question, the best comment in this whole stream belongs to agencyvsrep:
“ladies and gents – we all only hold arts degrees”.

I like your style. We should do lunch.

@iPlanner – Nonsense. You only spend that amount of time with clients when you are either (a) very senior and not all that interested in the granularity of a media plan, or (b) work on a huge client were you may only have contact with that one client. And in those circumstances, planners are surely more all over the brand.

My experience with agencies is by and large different. Our clients use media agencies to book media. And not a lot else. No matter how much you want to dress it up. And when these clients don’t have huge spends they are just not a priority at the agency.

Case in point. Right now I have 7 bookings on my desk from my ad sales people. Only one is through an agency, and the agency person we dealt with in this case was barely aware that this company was even her client.

So all I can say is at the coalface, it’s a very different story, and I would suggest that some of you agency gurus actually audit the customer (if you can call publishers customers) experience (if you can call the whole process of dealing with ad agencies an experience).

It would be funny of there wasn’t so much money involved…

HI All,

Might i suggest since MEC are soo busy, why don’t the publisher do lunches or dinners at MEC’s office.

You can see the agency and the agency can see you.

WIN WIN!

Israel vs Palestine: discuss?

At SMI, we are reading the commentary on this with interest, as these challenges are a result of some larger issues for both media companies and agencies. The rapidly fragmenting media landscape in Australia is one of the key factors that is creating challenges for both buyers and sellers.

We thought it may be interesting for you to see the recent analysis we completed on the market fragmentation.
We have measured the number of additional mediums ( magazine titles, television channels etc across the entire market from a metro, regional and local perspective ) Please also note that there is a significant increase in the number of individual transactions associated with all of these.

From September 2009 to June 2010 there have been significant percentage increases in the number of individual mediums available across each sector.

Television – 18.9%
Radio – 5.18%
Outdoor – 4.50%
Magazines – 9.61%
Newspapers – 4.70%
Cinema – 20.0%
Digital – 14.8%

The job of both the buyer and seller is harder than it ever has been, so it is not suprising that occasionally, agencies are unable to see everyone they would like to.

Face to face meetings for every deal cannot be the way forward.
The critical thing at this point is that both agencies and media are committed to finding solutions that enable more efficient trading.

MediaEdge staff are too busy to attend meetings with reps, but have found the time to post multiple ‘shame on you mumbrella’ messages all afternoon!

love the way this thread tapers off at lunch time.. talking of which what the hell am I doing in the office..

Good to see Sue from SMI offer some real facts in this debate which certainly supports the highlighted problem

Seems to me one answer is a dedicated, very robust and highly searchable central resource which easily and freely connects both advertising buyers and sellers. A planning tool which is actively managed by a real person who understands our market and is very ready, willing and able to evolve this resource based on ever changing needs

I have just the solution…..

Loving Denise’s shameless plugs.

Time for a boozey friday lunch.

Thanks anon – though I’d call it passion and belief in a service which I put myself on the line to deliver.

Enjoy your lunch 🙂

@carrob “Nonsense. You only spend that amount of time with clients when you are either (a) very senior and not all that interested in the granularity of a media plan, or (b) work on a huge client were you may only have contact with that one client. And in those circumstances, planners are surely more all over the brand.”

Are you serious? UI dont knwo where you get your industry knowledge on but your so out of touch with what Media Account Managers, Planners and buyers do its quite laughable. And to say if a client doesnt have a huge spend they they are not important it beyond ridiculous!

I dont know what fringe company or medium you work for but please keep up the below average work. Your making even the dickheads look like geniuses.

A very interesting debate here indeed. Having worked alongside many media agencies globally, I understand too well that you work long hours and do make time for publishers be it the top 10 or unique independent ones. It is very disappointing to see this kind of comment from a media agency and as a client, I would be bitterly disappointed at this agency for letting such an email go out in the first place. The digital landscape changes so much each week, so to say “don’t contact us until the new year” means that you are not servicing your actual client needs effectively. It’s very interesting to see also that when the question is asked to the agency what projects they are working on the response is general “not much” So if there are no briefs, and not much happening, how come you are so busy?

@surfspank “It’s very interesting to see also that when the question is asked to the agency what projects they are working on the response is general “not much” So if there are no briefs, and not much happening, how come you are so busy?”

Unfortunately a lot of the time we cant tell you what we are working on until its ready to go to market. Its a known fact, you want something to get out you tell the media. 🙂

@iPlanner. Your right. We are dinsoaurs. We know nothing.

But putting all this BS aside, you should take a look at your industry and especially media buying outfits who have people with small accounts. Every ad rep who reads this knows exactly what I am talking about.

Perhaps it’s you who is out of touch?

Wow, this makes interesting reading, I never knew that there was so much friction.

I’m a client with a fairly large monthly ad budget.

I respect that media reps have an obligation to try and sell me their product. Unfortunately I don’t have the time to see all of them, and never will.

I hire an agency for this reason. They have a crap of a job to do to earn their 10 points … because really, I’m transferring my problems to them and not even having to pay for it.

My take is that there’s a lot of things at play, time will always be limited, and there will be more media to sell than will ever be bought.

The email may have been an overreaction and not even properly thought out, but who’s never sent something out of frustration.

Publishers, Agents, don’t worry, we still need you both!

Hi106 – as a client, I don’t want reps calling me – that’s what we pay the media agency to handle.

if media reps started calling clients, we’d be in the same position as the poor bloke who wrote the email (which seems eminently fair and reasonable to me)

@Client – “if media reps started calling clients” – suggest you ask your clients how many calls they field a day “Mr Client”

@A Client, same applies, another media agency pretending to be a client late in the day to recover some lost ground.

“I hire an agency for this reason. They have a crap of a job to do to earn their 10 points…because really, I’m transferring my problems to them and not even having to pay for it”.

Pull the other one you clowns.

@Direct to brands: Good luck if that’s you’re attitude mate. When I see you’re still at work at 10pm on a Friday night developing a decent digital strategy for your client then I’ll be able to swallow your comment without choking.

Why do media agencies digital people claim they do “strategy” … It’s called implementation guys. Don’t flatter yourself.

If ALL reps took the time to listen properly to their agencies and research their clients, ideas are created and shared, the money comes in, then that’s media sales..
If we respect the hard slog all agencies go through, then that builds relationships, which opens up communications, and yep u guessed it, equates to more sales!
I think certain reps have given us all a bad name and that will continue, but this is in many respects a fantastic industry based on great relationships..

I’m allowing myself a move-per-comment for my Rubik’s cube but only managed to finish one side so far. More comments plz

Sales people, please – it’s simple, understand your agencies client and propose effective concepts within that understanding.
Don’t sell ‘packages’, sell something relevant, creative and cut through.
Guarantee you’ll be seen then!
Pull your fingers out and do the grind you reps.
That includes telling your local level sales manager to get themselves organised enough to be ahead of the game. Then they can stop sending out last minute deals to meet the numbers they promised!
Respect your media contacts and build a relationship based on an understanding of their workload.

There are cra@p sales reps, there are excellent sales reps. There are cr@p agencies, there are excellent agencies.

I have known sales reps to never uncover what the clients needs are and thus they are unable to put forward a solution that meets the clients needs.

I have known agencies who do not know what the clients needs are (because they are too busy…and perhaps that client is 8th on their list of 8…) and approach a sales rep at 11am saying that they urgently need to get an order confirmed by that afternoon…

It goes both ways and as above there are good and bad sides to both area’s.

My advice to clients is to really understand where your dollars are being spent; in the space you book and definitely in the creative costs. Many agencies rely on old school business models to make a fast large buck out of production costs. if you can shop around and use a few agencies – do it, that way you will know who the good guys are…

sell to the clients direct, providing two solutions, 1 the client gets the message first hand allowing solutions to be refined and tweaked first hand and 2 the agency can continue to protect their precious time…..

This was initiated for two reasons.

Lack of resource in a service rich industry where agencies are constanty under pressure from over enthusiastic clients and also smart business forseight coming into a tough period of the year.

A ‘rep’ is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to overall client communications.

Client comes first, they are serviced directly by the agency. They’re just trying to assure correct servicing levels and procedures.

@Anonymous
“Client comes first, they are serviced directly by the agency.”
– Not all clients are serviced by agencies. Many liaise directly with media outlets / publishers and have in house marketing teams that work wonders for their products and services. Plus many media outlets / publishers can offer in house creative at a fraction of the price of an agency.

I agree that the client comes first.

People in media agencies work long hours under enormous pressure. Many go years working weekends. Early starts and late nights are a given.

Also remember that, in addition to dealing with the media, media planners have to work with account planners, account managers and creatives.

Then there is new business with many staff, especially those at director level, having to work across multiple pitches.

As for Direct to Brand, the tone of your posts suggests an aggressive and “low rent” approach to business. Your, so called, unique offerings I would guess a media planner would describe as peripheral.

I’d love to have lengthy chats with my agencies on the deeper levels of their clients strategies, direction, focus, be included in their WIPs etc….but in reality, this rarely happens!
Recently I actually tried to make a meeting to discuss just that and the conversation went roughly like this
MEDIA: “It would be great to catch up, over lunch, breakfast, when ever you have time, just to get some deeper understanding in to client “A’s” direction for the next 12 months and their overall goals. Just so I can get a greater understanding and make sure what I’m giving you is the right info down the track?.”
AGENCY: ….. “Well, uh, it’s kind of hard to say at this point really, there’s so many different segments. Sorry, I don’t have time, call me in the new year and we’ll see what we can do then.”

As a media sales rep myself I must say I totally agree with iPlanner! There are just too many cowboys in the media sales industry that are just after the $$. I beleive you are right iPlanner because Ive seen it in all the backrooms of Radio Sales departments in particular where the sales reps and managers put together a proposal for a client who’s customers are really just not in the demographic of the particular radio station just because that client may be spending a lot of money elsewhere. They will do this for their own good without research, without a brief and without consultation. It’s great to be pro active but for god’s sake be educated about the client. All they do is bring down the whole industry by burning clients with the wrong campaigns, wrong promotions, wrong airtime, wrong audience and lack of support and value. As I said, great to be pro active but educate yourself about the client. There is a much better opportunity of securing a partnership that can deliver results for the client and a much better chance of securing an appointment if you are prepared with a proposal, idea or promotion that shows and backs up how the media company you represent can assist the client in generating results. It will prove to the agency and/or client that you are prepared to do the groundwork and learn about the business to make sure you deliver on brief.

shock horror – ‘reps’ sell stuff to agencies that might not be 100% right. next thing you’ll tell me agencies recommend diversified/specialist activity to clients so the agency can achieve its revenue goals

Agency staff are overworked, underpaid and underappreciated by their own bosses and by a lot of media reps. That said there are some agency staff with their head so far up their own ass they literally have shit for brains. But when you pay peanuts you do get a lot of monkeys. I am not even going to start on about the quality of the Digital Cadet graduates.

Reps get major pressure on them to meet targets and if they don’t they are out of job. Depending on who you work for it is like having an axe permanently above your head. But there are some out there that wouldn’t know the difference between a direct response and a brand campaign, and that if you asked them what an impression was they would say it was someone acting like someone else.

When I started in Agency land 8 years ago (now a rep – swapped back and forth), we briefed publishers that we thought would deliver the best results for our clients, If I didn’t think a site was appropriate, I would say so and why. now it seems to be a case of briefing those that agree to pay higher commissions.

When I started as a sales rep, we took pride in showing agencies that we knew something about their clients and by presenting something that would benefit them and their client. Now in a lot of cases it is just sell what you have to anyone you can without thinking of the result.

I remember when CTR’s were an average of 1% and that was minimum – now I hear people saying that .25% is a good result. We worked together to achieve results for all of us, the rep, the agency and most importantly the client, now it seems we just work for the spend and stuff the results.

Yes there are way too many sales reps but that is because the agencies didn’t like the power of the rep houses and encouraged sites to sell directly. Well the Jennie isn’t going back in that bottle.

Yes agencies do not employ enough staff in their digital departments to manage the workload.

Yes there are too many agency staff that sit there and brief the five usual suspects and maybe one or two more because it is easy for them. But ignoring the rest only causes resentment and forces them to go direct.

There are too many publishers out there willing to bribe their way into budgets such as gifts for campaign spends and “rebates” on quarterly spends. C’mon folks a bribe is a bribe. And seriously, if you want to go direct then great, but make sure you know what you are talking about or the client will tell the agency not to spend on you.

Agency staff have always worked long hours, ask anyone from 8, 15 or 25 years ago it is part of the role, and Sales rep have always had their weekends and clocked out at 5.30pm and that is their life. If you don’t like one then try the other.

It used to be about creativity of planning and proposing, skills in analysis and optimisation and pride in ensuring that a good result was delivered.

Just really, where are the clients needs in all this? Because regardless of agency or rep, we all work for them!

Hey Realness, agencies may “recommend diversified/specialist activity to clients so the agency can achieve its revenue goals” but at least it’s based on brief and client needs. It then really is up to the agency/media planner to pin point which media and which placement is going to best target the client’s market to achieve the most effective, strategic and comprehensive campaign delivering results. It may be that sometimes the Agency wont contact your media outlet Realness…it’s nothing personal, it’s business and it’s based on the clients needs and their market. Sometimes media reps take losing a booking personally because thats all they are after rather than looking at the clients needs and understanding that sometimes the client and the media you are representing just arent a good fit.
As I said before, there are so many cowboys out there selling media and burning clients because their after the $$ short term.

Dear Publishers/Media Owners,

Objective – Save your Money and Save our Time
Timing – Now

Communication Strategy:

Centralise discussions with clients/agency.

1. Offer a service to media agencies where we can book our ads through an automated system – no errors on the Publisher side if booked incorrectly.

2. Cut your sales staff down, we don’t have the time or need to see your sales team on a regular basis. 80% of the meetings end in no improved result for your product.

3. Offer strategic service – have a strategice sales team in place. We will definitely utilise when we are in need to work closely with the agency to develop opportunities that are in line with client brief.

Considering the high response on this blog there is a need to change the way we work. Sales staff and Media Staff are frustrated and there needs to be a better and more valuable way of working together.

Money is being wasted Media Owners/Publishers. Improve your bottom line.

*Spam* ‘Mediascope post’ *Spam* – yawn…

You know what? I have no problems accepting meetings. I love to know what new opportunities exist out there for my clients. What really pisses me off is when I can’t make a booking because my rep is “out at meetings all day” and apparently nobody else within the organisation wants to help me because my booking does not count towards their bottom line.

This is happening on a regular basis. So how about we cut down the extraneous meetings and actually meet the deadlines of people willing to part with their money, instead of letting them hang for a while while out chasing long shots…

Everyone should work hard to ensure that clients’ needs are defined and the media booked is a solution to those needs. (No sh1t Sherlock.) – well you would have thought that to be the case… I am a rep and have ran out of fingers counting the amount of times I get called by an agency with an ‘urgent’ booking and the option that is being booked is not the right one(.)

Direct client to publisher relationships can overcome this problem. Many agencies are great and the above does not apply to them. There are lots of cowboys out there all the same(.)