Stop vilifying Scientology

I hope Scientology is grateful for the liberal definition of religion

Totally agree. Scientologists are no more loopy than any other religion.

If Cathlocism were invented today, you’d think they were a bunch of crackpots (oh wait, they are). It’s only because they’ve been established for so long that they’re accepted.

Can’t see how a religion that worships a man who came back from the dead & asks them to donate money (or demons will get you!) is any less crazy/evil/manipulative than Scientology with it’s aliens & spaceships & Tom Cruise.

It’s only because Scientology is new that they’re an obvious/soft target.

“It drips with sanctimonious bigotry” I thought his article was really tame.. This chick is going to get hammered.

“Scientologists donate hours of their time…attending music festivals in blistering heat.”
Riiiiiiiight….

As soon as she started defending a religion I metaphorically threw her argument into the bin… that’s where all religion belongs.

Christopher Hitchens says it best “Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody—not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms—had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge.”

And this quote can include “new” religions.

I wonder if Vicki’s “thetan” told her to write this. What level are you Vicki and how many thousands of dollars did you pay them to get there. Scientologists are nothing more than a bunch of “Trekkies” following a science fiction book written by Hubbard.
He should have worked for an agency, what a creative mind he had.

Lol, Scientology.

You misread Nick’s article – he used the example of Scientology to question whether accepting a client with a bad reputation (which you appear to agree the Church of Scientology has), damages the company/advertiser’s reputation.
He then asked, on a separate note, whether accepting clients whose work is immporal (cigarettes, etc, and not Scientology) damages the company’s reputation.

Of course the Church of Scientology donates endless hours to helping the vulnerable. It’s called recruitment.

I’ve got so much to do this afternoon… hitting refresh every 2 minutes to watch this get ripped apart is really going to slow me down. Couldn’t we earmark Friday arvo as the designated time for troll bait?

It’s worrying that Scientology has been stereotyped so negatively, and the stereotype is excepted so easily.

I know very little about the religion, and I expect that when challenged most opposers of Scientology also know very little about the religion other than what’s been gleaned from the media. And yet they still pass judgement.

Personally, until I have spent time in a Church of Scientology, a Church, a Synagog, a Mosque, a temple or any other place of worship, read their holy books and practiced their belief system, I will refrain from judgement.

And when I do feel informed enough to make judgement on a religion, I will keep it to myself, because it is my personal belief system.

It’s is a right of an agency to refuse to represent any brand, but for religion, let it be that you do not believe in imparting a religion upon others, not that a religion is “wrong”.

*Sits back and butters up the popcorn*

Given the nature of the “religion” in question, I’d have written my article such that it dripped with humble bigotry instead.

dear mumbrella, this is either

a) really sad because you are only running this BS to stir up your readers and get solid “engagement” off the back of a group of people that ruin actual peoples lives

b) your suggesting any moron in a cult (yep Vicki, your either a moron or you know what your doing and your just evil) is deserving of a platform to whinge on this site? In which case could you please at least find some doomsday cults with a more folksy and entertaining load of crap.

It’s most likely the first one though, seriously mumbo, not cool. You can call it whatever BS you want, but your just leading on morons (sorry vicki, but you are a moron) to get click throughs and comments (like this one, hahaha).

I think it’s right to question the appropriateness of using advertising to sell religious beliefs. My belief: spirituality is a private matter and religions of any kind should not be pushed as a commodity, whether by doorknocking, billboards or any other means, including ‘free english lessons’ to vulnerable new migrants.

From the author of ‘BATTLEFIELD EARTH’ comes a RELIGION.

Fuck. off. scientology.

you’re a cult

Yes, religion is a strange thing and organised religion is quite strange. We know that stories get distorted in retelling over the centuries so it’s possible to hold that while the stories are unbelievable nevertheless they contain valuable echoes of truth. New religions haven’t had time to gain that patina of interpretation because the original concepts are out there in print. Scientology sits alongside Avatar for rationality.

Pfff! religion! that is not a religion. It was a way to get past Tax laws in the USA and here after they made people pay money to “be a better person” through training sessions.. It is a belief that psychiatry is bad… That we started from Aliens. and that everyone is equal, unless you are famous, and then you are more equal than the rest.

Of course your helping less fortunate people, because they make great recruits. Scientology is doing exactly what Christianity has been doing for thousands of year.

That’s it…. I’m jumping out of Media and forming a cult!

Eh, the tone of this response is exactly why Scientology has the reputation it does.

Dear Vicki,

Thank you for your enlightening article. Now I have two reasons to feel sorry for Scientologists:

1/ because you believe some seriously weird stuff
2/ because you are poor misunderstood victims of fear-based vilification

Of course, the reason I believe the first might simply be that your PR person is doing such a terrible job of overcoming some popular misconceptions about your kooky cult.

Maybe instead of spinning the wonderful acts of your members, you should start by explaining the whole Xenu thing. Because no one will take any of you seriously until you do.

No Vicki, I would definitely label the “Church” of Scientology as evil.

Careful all, chances are the good folks at the CofS will try to sue anyone who makes a critical statement about them here!

your operating thetan level has reached new heights, my child.

let me take you to the mothership.

Jewish Scientologists?? Seriously??!

This whole piece made me chuckle, this being a highlight!

Vicki,

Just so we’re all absolutely clear – what does your “church” stand for that makes it a religion?
Belief in the Declaration of Human Rights is lovely, but seems to be avoiding the point of Scientology as I can support Human Rights easily being a Scientologist.

If I want to buy into Scientology, what belief(s) am I buying into?

Cheers.

How many Scientologists does it take to change a lightbulb?

Two, one to change the lightbulb and one to tell Tom Cruise it cost $50,000

A note to all those who see an article which mentions a religion and see it as a chance to go totally off topic and launch into an anti-religion rant:

Just because religion is meaningless to you does not mean it is not incredible, fulfilling and adds a whole new dimension to others lives.

Lack of respect for the beliefs of others is more a reflection on you than those who you attempt to mock.

Actually MattP, my lack of respect for the religious beliefs of others is a reflection of my ability to apply reason and logic, my ability to understand science, and a common sense realisation that the fairy stories they told my in primary school probably aren’t true.

People in all professions, advertising and media included, should be wary of people incapable of thinking their way out of religion.

Hi Vicki,

since Scientology is so open now would you mind answering a couple of questions…

1. Does Scientology have a navy? Why?

2. Is the origin of humans as written by L.Ron Hubbard and portrayed in the movie Battlefield Earth what you believe in?

Anything less than a direct answer i think would confirm in most people’s minds a cult mindset.

btw MattP

you might believe you’re an intelligent person, that doesn’t mean I have to respect you if I don’t believe it.

@MattP if you insert ‘heroin’, ‘rugby league’, ‘cheese’, just as a few examples, where you have put ‘religion’ you will see just how incredibly stupid that sentence really is.

So it seems the premise of the original article was correct, and appears to have been answered.

Yes, it appears that the type of company/industry being promoted features heavily in a person’s decision to work in/for that company/industry.

That explains why The Church of Scientology was forced to recruit Vicki Dunstan as their Head of Public Affairs.

Any experienced and capable PR person would not have responded in this manner. It simply feeds the perception that The Church of Scientology is a defensive organisation. This breeds distrust in the wider community and effectively reinforces public belief that it has something to hide.

Further, it creates an opportunity for critics to openly voice their opinions in a near unmoderated environment.

This is PR 101 Vicki and you failed.

Christ this is too much, anyone got a spare Prozac?

“yes but all religions are loopy”

well, maybe, but the difference between Scientology and other religions is transparency. You want to learn about a religion and what it believes in? Well that is pretty easy to do. Want to learn about Scientology and its beliefs and practices? Not so easy.

Here is a challenge to the author of this piece: Vicky, who/what is Xenu and what is its role in Scientology?

If you answer that question, I will accept you are not part of a cult.

I was born a snake handler and I’ll die a snake handler.

be great to know what it is about scientology that endears smart and successful people to it? i don’t get it.

I think Vicki’s daughter made the point clearly enough: Scientology president’s daughter slams ‘toxic’ church (ABC Lateline 2010) – http://www.abc.net.au/lateline.....903129.htm.

That’s without touching on who those ‘volunteers’ are and the $10 a week they were paid by the church of Scientology: Church of Scientology ‘has to conform to labour laws’ (The Age 2011) – http://www.theage.com.au/natio.....z2M6PKDt2S

Sure it could be seen as wrong to single out Scientology as a ‘evil client’. However Scientology doesn’t do itself many favours by treating people poorly.

Let’s compare L Ron Hubbard vs. Universal Declaration of Human Rights

http://www.xenu-directory.net/.....-udhr.html

Here’s a sample

Article 2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.

L. Ron Hubbard, “Dept of Govt Affairs”, HCO Policy Letter of 15 August 1960:

If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace.

Vicki

The article says you are head of public affairs at the church of scientology. But your linkedin profile says you are in fact “President at Church of Scientology Australia.” Surely this is an important detail to include when assessing the level of impartiality in the article???

TH and others . . .

True science and true religion are the same thing and both can withstand the rigors of any intelligent analysis, questions, and application of reason and logic.

The facts remain science alone cannot answer every question. True intelligence is the correct application of science and religion in harmony which leaves no room for any unanswered questions and therefore no doubt.

Ha ha ha @Shabbadu

Religious holiday – It’s the Feast of Maximum Occupancy!

@MattP, you seem ignorant about Co$. Do yourself a favour, visit:

http://tonyortega.org

Oh, and read some of the articles. Then you’ll understand the anti-Co$ sentiments expressed in these comments, and why they’ve been made.

Modern atheism is becoming a lot like other main stream religions, full of smug, self righteous people who think they have all the answers. Atheism has it’s own high priests (Christopher Hitchens) and religious tracts (God Is Not Great), unquestioningly devoured by many despite the fact that they are full of flawed logic and leaps of imagination that would make L Ron Hubbard proud.

Seriously, I don’t mind if you’re an atheist, a Christian or a Scientologist. Just keep it to yourself.

Yes, Agnostic.
All those door-knocking atheists, with their silly rituals, songs and costumes, positively ramming logic and reason down people’s throats.

I am currently shopping for a religion. Scientology seems like it’s a lot more expensive than all the other religions. Is there a joining discount? Abrahamic religions seem to just require the purchase of one book (sometimes 2 volumes) but it seems Scientology requires many books and cds and all of them are still in copyright.

I’m with Doug, the premise is whack – it’s not a religion at all according to the German government..

Scientology is just for a bit of a laugh. Take it easy.

I’m now going to audit you all. Especially that Abdul guy.

The Ron.

x

A compelling argument. +1 Theten level for you Viki!

Michael Abdul upsets me greatly. It’s not like we are the illuminati or anything sinister. Cut Ology (what we sometimes call it) some slack.

What a silly ill informed woman

You amuse me Vicki Dunstan. They would have set fire to you in the middle ages.

The Church of Scientology. The name itself is almost a contradiction in terms. Who knew people wouldn’t take it seriously? What are the odds Vicki? As for religion, I’ll repost part of what was posted above because it pretty much sums up the matter:

“Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge.”

Sorry but repeatable proof (ergo fact) trumps personal belief any day of the week, and twice on Sundays, ironically.

This entire article is a joke, seriously guys try and put some thought into your articles.

Not to mention that you bring someone into this article with no proof or even a comment from that person.

I’m sure they only became a church for the tax breaks anyway…

Poor form Mumbrella, religion of any kind has no place here. It just divides people.

Yeah – stop vilifying Scientology. It does a perfectly good job of vilifying itself.

Google ‘the hole scientology’. Google ‘operation freakout’ and ‘operation snow white’. Read this: http://laist.com/2008/03/23/church_of_scien.php Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDXBNijXAEM

Did you know the wife of the church’s current leader has been missing and not seen in public for years since she hired staff members without his permission?

And all of this stuff is public knowledge. So any agency or staff member given the job of turning Scientology’s image around must literally have the hardest job in the world and should probably jump on Seek.

JC hasn’t done their research on Germany. There is more than one “level” of religion in that country. They have state religions – which received taxes from their members which the government collects and gives to the Church. Scientology is not under that category. Lutherans and Catholics collect taxes from members. The rest of religion in Germany doesn’t fit into that category – Buddhists, Hindus, different Christian denominations. Scientology in Germany is a religion – there are over 30 court decisions that recognise the religiosity of Scientology as well as scholars. why did we have to take our position to court? Well some of the old guard in Germany have had trouble moving out of the mentality that led this country into the worst human rights abuse our world has seen. Old habits die hard, but that old guard is dying out. Let’s face it – they scholars are the people who are qualified to know. It is not the government’s job to decide what is or is not a religion. Heaven help us if we come down to that!

MattP: Science can’t answer every question because our knowledge is incomplete. Religion on the other hand is complete: complete nonsense. YOu can’t fill in the gaps in scientific knowledge with “God did it”. You fill them in with more science.

There was a not bad meme on this very topic not long ago…..something along the lines of…..

Religion is like a penis. It’s fine to have one, and fine to be proud of it…..but:

Don’t get it out in front of children.
Don’t push it onto other people.
Don’t think with it.
Don’t make laws with it.

Sounds about right to me.

your such a hypocrite…… when it suits you, its a nanny state, but when you don’t agree, then you tell us…. DONT, DONT, and DONT…… typical!!!!

“Well some of the old guard in Germany have had trouble moving out of the mentality that led this country into the worst human rights abuse our world has seen.”

You’ve got it all wrong. These ‘old guard’ as you call them are sensitive to the totalitarian potential of organizations like Scientology. A very good case could be made that Nazism is a religion – I don’t think Germany would grant religious status to a new Nazi party regardless of their religious pretensions.

So the “church’s” PR hack doesn’t believe the “church” is evil. Big surprise.

I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation, other than fart humour. (You need sound.)

In the last Australian census approximately 2000 Scientologist’s were recorded in the census. More Jedi’s were counted than Scientologist’s though. So there!

Vicki where are you?
you’ve been asked some very basic questions that may stem the vitriol. I am sure I’m not alone in wanting to hear your response.

I have a question too. “Newly arrived families from war-torn parts of Africa receive English literacy lessons delivered voluntarily by Scientologists”.
And what are the stats on how many of these vulnerable benefactors become Scientologists themselves? If the answer is many then it’s not a kind voluntary gesture …. It’s purely recruitment.

Looking forward to your reply…..

Lolling : as a scientologist of many years… with the questions you trollers have… if we bothered to give an ounce of our time answering each one… we would have no time….

lets move past their whacky disarming rhetoric –

Group with links to the Church of Scientology is targeting Australian kindergartens

http://www.smh.com.au/national.....z2MWNwmyS1

Luke, I was not trolling.

Vicki herself in this article says:
“We are a new religion. Yes, we attract some unwanted attention – often driven by ignorance and fear of the unknown.”

I am merely asking that the ignorance and unknown be cleared up a little. There are some very humorous comedians on here with some well written rants, and some very scathing attacks you don’t respond to them.

So it seems that those comments are ignored but when asked some specific questions which might help clear things up, your response that “we won’t respond” just continues the stigma around the CoS. Vicki writes an article but then doesn’t get involved with the commentary and response. Leaves us no other option but to presume.

I’m not here to judge scientology
but I’m intrigued that according to the article: “Scientologists donate hours of their time educating young people of the dangers of standing on street corners in the rain and attending music festivals…”
I’ve stood on lots of street corners and I’m fine.

Years ago I was given a book that examined Mr Hubbard and the rise of Scientology. It is called Bald Faced Messiah and a most disturbing read. Out of print now and expensive second hand but well worth reading. It is yet another addition to the American cultural phenomenon of creating new religions. Fortunately Australia has a very healthy tradition of scepticism.

This doesn’t read like something Vicki would have written herself (although for legal reasons I am happy to concede that she wrote it all.) You’ve got to remember she has been in this organisation for a very long time. And for most of that time she wasn’t meant to be exposed to the media. So it’s kind of natural for her to not understand how most people will take things. This is a real marketing challenge for Scientology now. How do you win over a technology you wished didn’t exist like the ‘net? To many this piece will sound American and seem to over-reach in places some will suspect Vicki wouldn’t. Nick X (former boss) was right. They can whinge all they want, but the information-sharing internet has killed their business model. There is no mystery. We see the guy behind the curtain and the game is over. As for other religions, that’s a chat for another day.

I’ve been watching CoS for several years now and have spent many hours studying their past actions and history. What has become clear to me is that their PR machinery is very adept at crying ‘victim’, yet the multitude of their victims are painted as ‘ A few bitter apostates with axes to grind.’ (and I am surprised that the line wasn’t used in this bit of spin). The ‘unwanted attention’? Its the result of the truth spilling out of the ever-widening cracks in the ‘churchs’ thin veneer, from the hundreds, if not thousands, of real victims who have endured so much from this ‘religion’. It is all well documented with more coming to light each day, and it is not pretty. I will continue to educate my community about preditory cults, and CoS is a perfect model of what the world does not need, in my honest opinion.

Love a smoke and a beer right now…

Tax them!

I’m frightened that our government is not doing more to protect those poor refugees from those crazy Scientologists when they first come to our country.

More needs to be done to stop this from happening in the future.

Hey 66 Luke
You guys measure time in ounces?? That’s amazing!