They only want you when you’re seventeen

I don’t like getting into Gen whatever debates, but Kudos for the ladytron reference Tim.

Tim, an observation indeed

It is a young person’s game – the industry ages us a fast and many drop out along the way to do other things or find meaning elsewhere.

That said. It struck me recently that with this coming of age in ad-land is there also a disconnect between the young folks in the creative and media departments and their audiences? Can an often urban twenty something really relate to a single suburban mother of four? I mean really relate – what does a 22 year old know about washing clothes for the family or paying a mortgage? – do they call their mum for advice?

I like to believe that in this game we still operate on insights about consumers, this has not changed, the mechanics surrounding the telling of those ideas has but the behaviors and way into consumer minds has not. For this experienced members of the team are still invaluable.

Disclosure I am actually now 34 (so getting past it)

fancy that, a Gen y big-upping themselves!
I’m sorry but the idea that advertising today is an ‘older man’s business’ seems totally absurd to me.
the fact that Tim had to hark back to the 1960s for this stereotype proves the point
It makes more sense for 1971 than 2011
i mean, how many CDs are over 45?
IMHO the problem is quite the opposite
clients miss out on maturity, wisdom and commerciality due to agencies’ belief that yoof have a monopoly on creativity and that this is the most important thing to clients – whereas effectiveness almost certainly is

You need both youth & grey-haired experience.

I once worked at a web development firm where the MD was 22 and I was 46.

He wanted me at the table because he knew that CEOs weren’t going to listen much to a 22 year old telling them how to spend their marketing money.

And I wanted to be a part of the exciting new online world. So we both benefited.

By the way, I’m now 57 and still at it.

Nice one Timmy!

Ta hell with ye oldees!

Clients are looking for diversity of experience across all age groups. A 26 year old making recommendations to a client based on their experience may be able to apply it very well to some circumstances.

But in others this same 26 year old simply hasn’t lived enough years on the planet yet to have sufficient rounded knowledge to have their recommendations have any real credibility.

More remarkably, they have not lived long enough to have made sufficient mistakes which in turn equip them to advise a client when NOT to go in a particular direction – which can often be just as important.

There seems to be a vital ingredient missing in agencies full of 20 somethings and that is plain and simple respect.

Perhaps its time for Gen Y’s embraced diversity of ages rather than trashing the value of anyone older than themselves. They may find they start to add real value whereby their agency can actually offer more to clients through a comprehensive and solid understanding of a diverse range consumers of all ages.

I’m all for proponing the power of young people, but this piece takes it all a little too far…

The digital industry is 15 years old now. Which means the 35 year olds you see kicking around the industry have lived, breathed, planned, built and sold online media all their adult lives. They are as native and as digital as a 17 year old.

With regards to these heavy weights you refer to, in the last 15 years I’ve seen the ‘old school’ either shape up or ship out and as such you’d be a fool to discount how savvy the guys still around actually are.

Finally, the digital revolution has happened. It’s over. The job at hand is working out how to mix old and new effectively. Being a digital native is great, but I’d listen harder to a 22 year old who also has a passion for TV or reads 5 magazines a week.

Tim, you are obviously a smart guy. But remember, you’re smart because you’re smart, not because you’re young.

My question is for how long is this window open?

How long before the upper echelon sharpen their Facebook pages enough to maintain their worth, and today’s youth start graduate en masse into upper middle management?

Show me an old man and I’ll show you someone who was once a youngster, playing their music far too loud, revealing a little ankle, and sticking it to the old folk.

Make hay while the sun shines, kids.

Is this actually happening though? Or is it just a few golden young guns (e.g yourself) in the spotlight? [deservedly so]. i think often a lot of agencies are fairly reluctant to actually hire or promote someone young [and i mean young, i. e early to mid 20’s] without a traditional ‘dues paid’/agency side experience, no matter how innovative, ambitious, creative or diverse their skill set may be or how much they might actually end up contributing for clients.

I think the need is there more than ever to listen to those who are young with a diverse skill set or approach, especially as the rate at which we as an industry are delivering new media formats and innovations is already way behind the adoption rate for youth. but when it comes to the crunch, agencies are quite scared to actually do it. either way, you definitely you need a balance of more senior staff with a polished understanding of the work and long term experience in management on both internal and client side.

Kill everyone aged between 30 and 45. That should do it.

All young people I´ve worked with have based their insights on what they feel – whether the target has been baby boomers or 30 year old mums… It´s the self obsessed generation. Sure, we should listen to you, just as we should listen to everyone. It´s not a contest; collaboration and respect that builds the best campaigns.

Is this kid for real? Youngsters can be smart and given opportunities however they tend to lack severely in management skills, understanding of team work and integrated campaigns that comes with experience and maturity.

The gaping chasm between ability and ego is the most apparent in Gen Y. Not to mention the re emergence of blatantly sexist and disrespectful behaviour that died out with Don Draper.

Plagearised quotes and regurgitating others (easily available online) opinions do not a visionary make.

This article made me laugh. You don’t promote someone based on their subject matter knowledge, you promote them based on their ability to manage people, clients, and above all, deliver results. The reality is that a twenty six year-old doesn’t have the right to expect to be the most important person in the room if their only skill to to blow hot air about how wonderful digital is and how this new generation of people is embracing the connected world. It’s about demonstrating that you’ve delivered. More revenue, greater ROI and deeper engagement. I’ve been in the digital world for 15 years and I’m constantly amazed by the sheer volume of guru’s who feel that they should be the next Director, Head or CEO because they can recite the latest and greatest trends in the industry. Position and power is earned. It’s earned through successful results. And this takes enough time, lots of campaigns (occasionally a few hard knocks) to identify not only what to do, but what not to do. This can only be seen through experience.

This is painful to read. Does every Gen Y with ‘Director’ in their title need to write these vapid self promotion rants on industry sites?

If I had a xx year old who had been hands on with online for the past 17 years – had made all the mistakes and seen all the successes – I’d see the value. Age is irrelevant.

LATFH!

Yeah, I found it a bit painful to read despite being Gen Y myself.

You never stop learning, and in this industry I’ve found myself more often than not learning off those people that this article seems to eschew. They might not have the same skill set, or affinity for digital that we enjoy, but they know a hell of a lot more than I do and have got to where they are for a reason.

There might be a balance of power shift, but this article seems more like a self-referential fist-pimp than a genuine acknowledgement of this.

Props for the Ladytron reference though.

I worked on my first digital campaign 15 years ago and have done many since.
I think Tim was in long school socks where his biggest challenge was catching the bus or train to primary school.

At that time I already had almost 15 years experience and had learnt a lot through some fantastic mentors who I respected enormously. And even at 35 I had a lot more to learn and a ton of mistakes to make.

Now with 30 years experience in integrated campaigns where digital is just one of the tools and a stack of successes and a few painful failures, I’m told that I’m not young and funky enough to be employed in the industry.

I know its crap and I will find an agency where a mixture of “yoof” and experience is valued.

In the meantime, pull your socks up Tim. For someone of 26, you still have a lot of growing up to do.!

Good one Tim, I’m not sure if you read Kaye’s article the other week discussing our failing to commincate with with the over 55’s.

It would be great to get the two of you in a room together.

Is being a digital native the only reason why you think “a 22 year old can be sitting in a boardroom full of industry heavyweights and be the most valuable person in the room.”

I think the challenge GenYer’s face is how to survive as most people in this industry have or are catching up with their digital experience, what do you do when simply growing up with a certain set of tools no longer sets you apart? Things will continue to evolve and in a few years someone else will be telling you that the technology you grew up with is irrelevant.

The overall thinking and ability to understand and connect with people who you have nothing in common with is what is valuable, not how comfortable you are with new devices.

“Make no mistake, the internet has leaked into mainstream culture. Online behaviour increasingly drives offline purchases.”

Is this article being beamed in from 2006?

LOL

does tim still expect to retain a seat at the executive table when he hits 30 or is he preparing for retirement when the next up and comer to kicks him off the throne?

as a gen y-er i hate this. that means ive only got 4 or 5 years to make it big before im old news. i dont want a future that values arrogant kids with no expertise and i dont want to become one of them either.

Just because a youngster is making good decisions in one specific area of an industry doesnt make him the Messiah. Its this ego in our generation that will be the death of us…well, some of us

Wow. Tensile thread. (Boomers, you get that one?)

He’s saying the young talent pool is shallow. Protect your assets before they’re poached.

p.s.
lol at “deeper engagement”. Wonder what he does on Friday nights.

LOL. Title means nothing. Experience speaks for itself.

This one has really shaken up the bird cage.

Though I didn’t take it as a ‘step aside Grandpa, here comes Gen Y’ message. To me, it was aimed at the top level saying ‘Think about adding a Gen Y kid into your starting lineup. S/he might just turn out to be your best player.’

I think what has irritated people isn’t the ‘give youth a chance’ sentiment it’s the

‘we live in a digital world’
‘we grew up on geocities’
‘the internet has changed everything’
‘The rapid waters of online culture and digital behaviour ‘
‘The veterans of our industry must embrace change’
‘But in the slightly altered words of Chris Martin – We live in a digital world’
‘add a sprinkle of social and the cheese has well and truly moved’

If only this had an infographic, it could embody all that is totally awesome about the ad world.

Best laugh I’ve had in years! You may have gown up in this world, but many of us have actively been working in it and with it since the days when it was called multi media and we delivered brilliant work on 3.1/4 floppy disks! Skills & experience count, not your age. As confused gen yer says, if you truly believe this, better be prepared to retire in a few years.

It seems like John Wall and I are some of the only ones to have actually read this article, rather than jump to the “another pumped-up entitled gen-y” conclusion.

It’s obvious that Tim is not arguing for youth over experience. Read the final paragraph.
He’s saying that agency leaders should consider how Gen Y’s might add value today, rather than disregard them on account of their youth, as has traditionally been industry practice.

As Tim says “it’s a unique point in history,” and we should look to embrace it.

This is another pumped-up gen-y ego – to think without this article archaic agency leaders could have blindly forged on, overlooking the valuable young talent pool that would have revolutionised clients brands and the industry as a whole.

This article is vaguely offensive to all the truly talented who made their mark across range of ages over the past few decades. Unique point in history? Only for those with little understanding of our industry.

Misguided, malinformed, self indulgent, self promotional… not exactly the qualities of a leader. Thanks for reminding us of how embarassingly naive some Gen Y’s can be.

Sadly Ella, it is not obvious, if it were none of us would have objected to the premise we all read into it. This industry has never disregarded youth, it has always embraced them and fingers crossed it will continue to do so. Think of all the fabulous instances in our history when the 22 year old has been the most important person in the room. There have been lots of them and I expect there will always be many more.

Tim,

The slow cooker is still on the myfind website.
Wait, come to think of it there is also still a myfind website.

Please atleast bore me with compelling stories/opinions, or dont bother at all.

Yours Truly,
Nadia
(Yes, that Nadia.)

which are they, Mac? in medieval times when average life expectancy was 35?

I’m pretty young (27) and whilst part of me wants to grab a pitch fork and storm the castle for Gen Y (that would be the younger part), the other half of me knows how much I value the counsel of my senior contacts and mentors.

With the right relationships and teams ‘experience’ and ‘young flair’ don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Although, this wasn’t my take on the article.

@Ella – you nailed it. It’s actually about valuing fresh perspectives. The industry (alas, the country’s) churn rate with Gen Y’s is evidence that we haven’t really got it right in terms of what they value. But any leader of an agency will tell you about the ‘value’ they find when they get a member of this generation rocking. It stand to reason then that finding this out and learning to align values would make a great deal of sense.

I’m screwed I look terrible in a suit and I refuse to dye my hair. What now for me.
But I can still beat all my younger family at their favourite computer games/ crosswords/scrabble/whatever.
Suck it up.

Thanks for the insight, Mac.

FYI, there’s no such thing as 3 1/4 inch floppy disks.

Interesting reading. Tim as a ‘digital strategist’ how would you advise a client on managing this barrage of mostly critical commentry? I doubt it would be ‘Pretend it’s not happening’?

Underworked and overpaid? Not sure you got that right mate.

Sorry Ella, 5.1/4 and 3.1/2 floppy disks. I’ve used both. See the references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.....loppy_disk

If you really analyse everything that’s being said, I think what’s apparent is that everyone here is right. About everything.

I’m sorry, we’ve effectively been digi for about twenty years, which made me a wise nineteen year old when everything kicked off. Gen Y were still in preschool when Gen X sent our first email and that pretty much sums up how far ahead we’ve been ever since. Now, how does that make them know more than me about digi again? You know what they say about the older you get the more you realise you don’t know? Yeah, that one… x

Yes Tim re ideas, but…..up to 25, everyone’s frontal lobes are still in development, so their capacity to reach emotionally sound decisions is very limited. They can make decisions they deeply regret only 2 years later, because they’re not neurologically in control….yet. Combine that with a dearth of life/business experience and you sure want to be certain there’s a more senior mentor in the room. And that’s why so many start-ups founder early in the piece.

Learn from this experience, Tim.

I have read this article several times now, and it is only on the 5th read that I think I am beginning to see Tim’s point, and I agree with both Tim and majority of the commenters.

I believe digital is taking an increasingly important role in communications, and with some training and nurturing combined with years of valuable experience (lets not undervalue that here), these Gen Y’ers can become very valuable assets not just to an agency, but any organisation.

I like to think Tim is merely commenting on the need of an industry to embrace and nurture these young professionals, rather than resent them and their lofty titles and egos.

Ella, what do you think the little blue square is that you press to save a document?

And for what it’s worth, as an ageing Gen X’r in the industry – you accessed geocities, and MIRC and ICQ and alt.net on (maybe) your own computer.

But who bought it?

Who had purchase decision for the modem – and that second phone line you eventually got?

Boomers ushered in the digital age – and learned a lot from the dot com crash.

I believe tenure and experience is vital to any agency – tempered with fresh views that are not their own.

So yes, let’s promote our younger talent.

Lets create an environment conducive to parents with young families.

Here’s an idea – hire some people who aren’t white.

Imagine how powerful our work could be with these voices added.

Thanks for all the interest in the article. It’s a topical subject (read: link bait) and great to hear everyone’s opinion. However, I think my contention has been remixed in the commentary. There’s a lot of straw men in this field.

I’m not arguing the case for youth at the expense of experience. This isn’t an either/or equation. Collaboration is more important than ever.

I’m addressing the anti-Gen Y attitude creeping into our culture. I was making the point that this attitude is actually anti-youth, and has existed since the birth of our industry. The convention is that age=value, so youth=less value.

However, “This is a unique point in history, when a 22 year old CAN be sitting in a boardroom full of industry heavyweights and be the most valuable person in the room”.

I’m not suggesting this is always the case, or that it will be the case tomorrow. But one thing is for sure – it was not the case during the formative years of our industry.

The call to action is for the ‘masters of the universe’ to reconsider the value the of a youthful perspective.

I’m sorry I had to break it down like that. I tried to write the article with a tongue in cheek tone that would make it entertaining. Clearly, it’s aggravated some people’s anti-Gen Y tendencies.

With that out of the way, I can respond to some of the better points made in the comments.

CG – An unwavering ‘dues paid’ agency mentality is very common. I believe you need to know the rules before you break them, but there are plenty of agencies who invest in tenure over talent.

Reevesy – Good points. Empathy is our job. And our intuition is sharpened with experience. So if Gen Y has clocked up more online hours than any other generation, does it stand to reason that they would have a better understanding of online culture? I think it might, but to Hugh’s point – for how long? I refer to W+K creating ‘platoons’ of digital and traditional folk after losing Nike business due to their perceived lack of digital prowess. Fast forward past some amazing digitally-lead campaigns and a sack full of awards and they’re shifting away from the platoon in favour of their original structure. Not because platoons had failed, but because they’d been successful.

I for one look forward to the day I can take ‘digital’ out of my title. But for now, agencies should beware the anti-gen y monster, for it doth mock the meat it feeds upon. ^-^

Hi Tim

Kaye here – i blogged on offensive advertising for ‘older’ consumers a week or two ago.
I think your article is great and raises things we need to be aware of – and discuss – as witness the many responses.
A couple of comments.
I really hate it when an argument degenerates into a generational slanging match.
I don’t see much that is consistent across the so-called baby boomer demographic not do i believe all Gen Y’s are lazy nor Gen Z’s are determined to save the world and buy a house (which was asserted in a panel session at the Mumbrella 360 conference – I wondered if i was hearing right???).
We come in all shapes and sizes and with many different skills and experiences. So, just as the wise man said, it takes a village to raise a child, the ideal workplace surely is the one that represents a village of all age groups which can solve a (marketing) challenge.
I am more than twice the age of the 22-year-old who might be the most valuable person in the room.
But i question this way of viewing a meeting.
Shouldn’t all participants be delivering value, hopefully from different perspectives, influenced by age, life experience, technical knowledge, wisdom, and a whole bunch of other attributes which are not age-related.
So yes, let’s give due respect to young workers who ‘get’ the digital world.
But also understand this is not an either/or battle – we need good brains from all ages to share insights, create campaigns and solutions – and have fun while doing it…

>It’s a topical subject (read: link bait)

read: trolling

Except it wasn’t link bait, was it? That claim is just a climbdown.

Thanks for the feedback Kaye. I enjoyed your article too.
Agree with your points – particularly about having fun in the process!

One of the great advantages to being three times your age is that I have already been your age.

Unless that 22yo at the boardroom table has the critical skills to articulate and reflect on the media usage patterns of Gen Y, then she’s not terribly useful to anyone. Gen Y are pretty good at selling themselves and social media as incomprehensible to grown-ups without their help, but this offers only a 10-15 year window of opportunity before the next generation shows up, arguing the same thing against them.

a la Dan…

the funniest part about all of this is in 20 years time some new rump will show up and expect to be taken seriously, with Tim anxiously coloring his greys whilst arguing against the naivety and arrogance of todays youth

Sadly in twenty years time Tim will really want to remain in the industry but will have already been tapped on the shoulder to move on. He will have people tell him that he has far too much experience for the roles he is applying for as he will no longer be seen as “young & funky”. They will suggest that all the experience he worked so hard to gain is not worth anything. And some twenty-something wil write on whatever a thread has become then, agreeing that Tim should consider his career ended.

But, hopefully (and soon!!) the industry will have woken up to itself and embraced a diversity of ages. Unlike agency staff photos where the agency ages all fit within a narrow age band, consumers are of all age groups.

It is not your age that really matters it is your ability to understand the brief from the client. At the end of the day it doesnt matter how old (or young) the person is who has the idea but if the idea is effective.

Tim should actually think about Tony’s answer #52 as that day will probably approach in ten years rather than 20.
It’s useful to have the 22 yr old in the boardroom to get the younger demographic perspective but that should also be a case related statement as the client, their brief and target audience is what really pays the bills.

If a client is met at the hip agency which, resembles a school playground when he has a couple of million in his pocket how well disposed is he or she to spend that coin in a kindergarden or a percieved engine room of quality?
The selling starts in earnest when the client walks in through the door. The pitch at his place may have been the hook but if he wants to meet to get a feel for the agency then a good stable workplace populated with a wide and varied mix of people at all ages & levels is what I would want to see before spending some large amount of coin that the board has assigned for a campaign.

The smart agency will value all of it’s employees regardless of age or gender as input will differ from each generation.

I have been very lucky in that computers were just starting to move out of universitys when I left school. So my lifetime experience has been from a far simpler age when only say three people owned a car in the street to todays information on demand on the street digital age.
It has been a truly wonderful ride it has come of age as I have. Bot one important aspect of my formative years at work was doing an apprenticeship so working with and learning to integrate with other workers of all ages.
We are all valuable.

Having just witnessd a project get thoroughly rooted by an over zealous twenty something who refused to listen to two older employees…

Learn and value the meaning of the word “teamwork” it was invented for a reason.
Now to carry on cleaning up the mess, the potentual loss of a multi million dollar client over a tiny 100k job that should not have ended up the dogs dinner it did as one of our younger employees royally f-cked up.

That’s why you get fired.

Tim should actually think about Tony’s answer #52 as that day will probably approach in ten years rather than 20.
It’s useful to have the 22 yr old in the boardroom to get the younger demographic perspective but that should also be a case related statement as the client, their brief and target audience is what really pays the bills.
If a client is met at the hip agency, which resembles a school playground when he has a couple of million in his pocket how well disposed is he or she to spend that coin in a kinder garden or a perceived engine room of quality?
The selling starts in earnest when the client walks in through the door. The pitch at his place may have been the hook but if he wants to meet to get a feel for the agency then a good stable workplace populated with a wide and varied mix of people at all ages & levels is what I would want to see before spending some large amount of coin that the board has assigned for a campaign.
The smart agency will value all of it’s employees regardless of age or gender as input will differ from each generation.
I have been very lucky in that computers were just starting to move out of universities when I left school. So my lifetime experience has been from a far simpler age when only say three people owned a car in the street to today’s information on demand on the street digital age.
It has been a truly wonderful ride it has come of age as I have. Bot one important aspect of my formative years at work was doing an apprenticeship so working with and learning to integrate with other workers of all ages.
We are all valuable.
Having just witnessed a project get thoroughly rooted by an over zealous twenty something who refused to listen to two older employees…
Learn and value the meaning of the word “teamwork” it was invented for a reason.
Now to carry on cleaning up the mess, the potential loss of a multi million dollar client over a tiny 100k job that should not have ended up the dogs dinner it did as one of our younger employees royally f-cked up.
That’s why you get fired.