Is it the media, politicians or consumer who’s to blame for today’s vanilla politics?

To paraphrase Donald Horne, Australia is a lucky country led by incompetent politicians who share in that luck.

The poblem is compulsory voting. If they had to inspire us to vote rather than take our vote for granted, it would be different. See what happens (like in most countries) when the parties need to motivate their base, rather than both sides bickering over the centre ground. Here it’s not a battle ideas but a battle of minor details and personalities. Voting needs to be voluntary. It needs to be democratic! We should all have the same free and equal right to vote, free from government coercion. And if they had to inspire us to vote, then maybe more people would vote and lift our 81% voter turnouts higher, maybe to the level of Sweden, Denmark, Iceland or other countries where the decision to vote is democratic.

The 24/7 media scrutiny of politicians lives, comments etc., is unhealthy for democracy and creates voter expectations that can never be met – personally and professionally.
if politicians of yesteryear had been subjected to same scrutiny that today’s politicians are subjected to, Churchill would never have been Prime Minister, Kennedy would never have been President and Hawke would never had been Prime Minister. They all achieved great things as leaders but, they were also flawed individuals. So, being flawed doesn’t prevent someone ability of achieving great things – it just makes them human, like you and me. Gillard was right when she said that every time she turns on the TV she’s either watching a journalist interviewing a politician, or a journalist interviewing another journalist about a politician. The unfortunate by-product of 24/7 news cycle is that there’s more space to fill than there is news to fill it. Consequently, much of today’s journalism is more commentary than reporting. Napthine is right.

Thanks Claus. Can I provide the facts for you.

You have confused VAP turnout with Voter turnout. VAP (Voting Age Population) Turnout is based on all people over the legislated voting age. It is ALWAYS lower than voter turnout because each country legislates who is eligible to vote. The condition that excludes the most people over the voting age is citizenship (though some British expats can vote without being citizens). There are other conditions such as incarceration, sound mind etc. Sadly up until the 1967 referendum aboriginal people were also excluded.

In the 2013 Federal election voter turnout was 93.23% in the House of Representatives and 93.88% in the Senate.

To compare VAP Turnout to Voter Turnout is not only wrong it is duplicitous.

In fact it is interesting to compare the two countries.

In 2014 Sweden had a VAP turnout of 80.23% compared to Australia’s 79.67% (first time under 80% since WWII) – so yes Sweden “looks good”.

But if you compare Voter Turnout, Sweden had 83.33% compared to Australia’s 93.23% – so one can only conclude that Australia’s compulsory voting does a MUCH better job of getting eligible voters to vote. You may disagree with the eligibility rules, but the compulsory voting system (for all its flaws) does deliver a much higher proportion of voters which clearly is a more representative and democratic process.

That’s what you get when you source your data from Wikipedia, or as I suspect more likely from Menzies House.

So Sweden has higher VAP (voting age population) turnout than Australia and Sweden has voluntary voting. Same with Denmark, Iceland, etc..? Interesting. I guess those countries numbers go down when you only base the percentage on those who are registered to vote. Since Australia has compulsory voting around 10% are not registered to vote and around 6% of votes are invalid. So it seems John that your figures are the ones that are duplicitous. To compare like for like across countries you need to look at the VAP figures. And 81% is pretty low… it’s no wonder!

John I did not compare voter turnout to VAP turnout, as you say.

You said it yourself that Sweden has higher voter turnout than Australia. Then YOU claim that Australia has higher voter turnouts, after discounting Australia’s high level of invalid votes and non-registered voters.

To compare countries voter turnouts you need to compare the VAP figures, and when you do, Australia has lower voter turnout (at 79.67% I see, thanks John) than many countries where voting is voluntary, including Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, etc.

Comment for John Grono. Yes, but you can still only lead a horse to water.

General opinion:
I have quoted this comment from Richard III many times before, it is quoted again because it is apt. “Since every Jack became a gentleman, there’s many a gentle person made a Jack.” Richard too is commenting on the topsy turvy world, the change in order and in common sense.

It seems to me that there are problems with the political scene in Australia. They are, inter alia, Career Politicians who have little life experience, Political Correctness that insists upon the ridiculous balance of gender by mere numbers, and some beige coloured code of behaviour that is somehow more gender egalitarian.

The insane habit of USA benchmarking, which strives to make the voting in a Westminster style of government more akin to the US model, treating a Prime Minister, a mere first among equals, as if he/she were the President and head of state. The celebrity madness that insists upon a politician looking and sounding the part, of course , nobody knows what the part is, but it must be in some way trendy or it is not acceptable.

We are very poor at making drama, but we sure know how to cast a political debate. The average cross sectional view of the Australian people, afforded by the televised political debate, has a makeup as fraudulent as the former USSR.

Doctors, Professors, Engineers and Business leaders: Female, 29 to 50 smartly dressed and either deeply intellectual or mummsy. Students: Girls, attractive well groomed and either bookish or opinionated.

I know I am exaggerating here for effect, but I believe the truth is in the detail.

I agree Richard. And I despair in equal amounts.

Claus, you contend that “You said it yourself that Sweden has higher voter turnout than Australia”.

What I actually I said was … “In 2014 Sweden had a VAP turnout of 80.23% compared to Australia’s 79.67% (first time under 80% since WWII) – so yes Sweden “looks good”. But if you compare Voter Turnout, Sweden had 83.33% compared to Australia’s 93.23%”.

Clearly 80.23% (Sweden) is higher than 79.67% (Australia) for VAP Turnout, but 83.33% (Sweden) is lower than 93.23% (Australia) for Voter Turnout.

You’ve managed to do it again!

I agree that the big difference between Sweden and Australia is that voter registration is much higher in Sweden (96.3%) than Australia (86.4%) which could indicate ennui with politicians and the political process, the actual process itself, or the efficiency and effectiveness of the AEC and the State ECs to process enrolments.

But it ALSO includes factors such as citizenship levels which you have completely ignored. We are a country largely built on immigration of which a proportion doesn’t take up Australian citizenship. But Sweden also has a migrant population, so how do the two countries compare?

In 2011 19.6% of the Swedish population were ‘born abroad’, while in 2013 27.7% of the Australian population was ‘born overseas’. While we have no firm data on citizenship rates for overseas born in both countries, one would have to suspect that this would have to be a significant part of the difference between the voter registration rates.

[There is no robust data on Australian citizenship. We do know that it is somewhere between 17.05m (AEC – registered to vote citizens) and 23.7m (ABS – total population). We also know that since citizenship was introduced in 1949 4.5m people have taken out Australian citizenship during a period when the Australian population grew from 7.9m to 23.7m. – though no firm inference can be made on citizenship rates from these data.]

I agree that our politicians are up the shit and a decrepit uninspiring lot.

But your conclusions about compulsory voting simply don’t accord with the known facts.

And Donald, the reason the base is only “those who are registered to vote”, is simply because people who aren’t registered to vote can’t vote. When you calculate a percentage you can’t load people into the denominator that can’t be counted in the numerator. That is Maths 101 – schoolboy stuff. It’s a mighty big call to say that my adherence to the principles of mathematics is duplicitous. And I stand by the logic (explained above) why VAP is a comparative statistic best used longitudinally within countries and not comparatively between countries.

Australia’s level of voter registration is very low, hence the AEC’s recent campaign to encourage people to register to vote. We also have a very high number of invalid votes (and donkey votes) which are also included in the 93% figure. So it’s misleading to use that number. Even the AEC themselves will explain that only 80% of the population actually vote.

The reason our voter turnout is so low, and VAP turnout is lower than many countries, including Sweden, is largely attributable to compulsory voting. Compulsory voting brings parties to the centre and makes it difficult for people to tell the difference between them. It also encourages invalid voting or donkey voting (which is even included in the 79.67% figure so that number might be even lower), and it means that the political parties do not need to motivate people to vote. All they do is try to be the least worst option and compulsory voting does the rest. Who needs democracy when you have force?

Our decision to vote should be democratic. Given that freedom, our politicians would need to lift their game, show their true colours, stop pretending they stand for nothing, and inspire people to take their choice (when they have it) more seriously instead of filing into the polling booth like donkeys to avoid a fine.

Claus, you just don’t get it do you.

If you are over 18, you also have to be an Australian citizen to vote.

This makes several million Australians ineligible to vote.

Voting when ineligible is illegal, just like voting twice. Are you suggesting that to get the VAP Turnout up that we allow illegal votes? That would be quite seditious. Or are you suggesting that we scrap the citizenship requirement.

Also, let’s look at some countries beyond Sweden with marginally higher VAP Turnouts than Australia – which you claim to be lower due to compulsory voting.

In essence your hypothesis is that non-compulsory voting will produce higher VAP turnouts which is a good thing for democracy.

Let’s start with The Cook Islands. It has non-compulsory voting. In the 2010 elections it achieved a 112.97% VAP Turnout. Neat trick eh. Does it sound democratic to you?

Mind you Somalia (also non-compulsory) managed to achieve a VAP turnout of 142.76% in its last parliamentary elections (though that was back in 1984). You must be cock-a-hoop at that.

So let’s see who is at the other end of the scale.

Let’s look at the US (also non-compulsory). In the 2014 mid-terms VAP Turnout was 33.64%. In the 2012 second-term elections VAP Turnout was 54.62%. This is a typical pattern … 30s in the mid-terms and 50s in the presidentials. Voter Turnouts are typically in the 40s and 60s respectively.

That is hardly a ringing endorsement for non-compulsory voting Claus.

In Australia, compulsory voting is ‘the price you pay’ to be part of this wonderful country. Let’s keep it that way and not go the way of the US or Somalia.

John you’re arguing with yourself and putting words in my mouth.

Compulsory voting is only enforced in about 10 countries in the world and none are great bastions of democratic freedom – far from it! Unless your idea of a free country is the Democratic Rupublic of The Congo or one of the South American countries only decades out of military dictatorship. All of the other countries – Sweden, Denmark, Canada, New Zealand, England, Japan, France, etc, etc have voluntary voting.

It’s better if politicians inspire us to vote. We should all have the same free and equal right to vote, free from government coercion. Our decision to vote should be democratic.

Actually Claus, I am putting facts in front of you, not words in your mouth. Facts such as there being at least 26 countries with compulsory voting – around only one-in-eight.

Ironically one of those countries is Greece. Yep they would have no idea about democracy would they.

I agree we need inspiring politicians. We DO have the same free and equal right to vote. That is each person’s vote (apart from electoral distributions or gerrymandering) is basically equal.

Non-compulsory voting has the potential to skew and bias that right of one vote one value. Just look at the various junta and military dictatorships around the world. Or the electoral roll doctoring in Florida in 2000 that decided the Presidency.

Democracy is best encapsulate by the most number of citizens of a country having their say, and having it regularly.

I don’t see what you have against the democratic process that delivers the most. I realise you object to it. You may even object to driving on the left-hand side of the road – good luck with that buddy, I just hope I’m not around. But some things in a free and democratic country you simply need to do for the greater good – and that includes voting here in Australia. I invite you to embrace and join it.

Failing that, you are putting forward a pretty compelling case for geniocracy.

Compulsory voting is not enforced in Greece. While some countries still have the draconian law on the books, only about 10 countries in the world actually enforce it. The reason, as I have already said, is that our decision to vote should be democratic. We should all have the same free and equal right to vote, free from government coercion. And a benefit of this is that when politicians know we are free, they will work harder to motivate people to vote, and improve everyone’s engagement and their likelihood of making an informed choice. Or do you prefer it if we just pretend like everybody votes and everybody cares but nobody really does? Do you prefer the pretend voter turnout numbers, counting invalid votes as votes and ignoring those who are not registered to vote? You say the solution is the use of force. I say we need to use peaceful means to encourage people to vote and that our so-called leaders should inspire us to vote. It works in Sweden, Denmark, New Zealand, and many other places, and in those countries at least they know that people are voting because they really want to and it is their free choice. High voluntary (democratic) turnouts should be the goal.

You mean like in the USA. Good luck with that.

The US and just about every other country. The US has other problems and it is not because they give people the democratic right to vote.

Yep. Geniocracy needed in this case.