Australian Podcast Ranker ‘doesn’t capture the full story’: Spotify
Spotify ANZ's head of podcasts Prithi Dey
Australian podcasters who have added video to their offering are increasingly “torn” over whether to leave the audio-only Australian Podcast Ranker, a Spotify executive has told Mumbrella.
Spotify ANZ head of podcast Prithi Dey warned that the Commercial Radio Australia-run Australian Podcast Ranker no longer provides “a full picture of the market” because it fails to measure video-format podcasts, tracking only audio downloads rather than streams.
Dey pointed to podcast Shameless leaving the Ranker as an illustration of its shortcomings, with the creators noting on social media that their exit followed the chart’s failure to capture video streams once they began posting full-length video episodes on Spotify.
Speaking on Mumbrellacast, Dey said the “sentiment is likely shared by several creators,” adding that “there are some creators out there that definitely feel torn between putting video podcasts on Spotify and the ranker, or dropping out of the ranker altogether.”
Indeed, last month’s winner of the ranker, Mamamia Out Loud, notably has a video offering on Youtube and its social channels, but not on Spotify.
“I think it’s important to call out that the format has changed so much, and that video consumption in podcasting is booming, and audience trends have obviously changed,” Dey said. “The [Australian] podcast ranking can be a useful snapshot of performance, but it doesn’t capture the full story today.”
She acknowledged that while individual platforms, including Spotify, maintain their own ranking lists, she added: “It’s really important to have a third-party measurement platform that provides greater transparency and clarity in the ecosystem.”
Her comments come as Apple joins the growing list of platforms offering video podcasts, following similar moves from Netflix and Youtube.
Spotify launched its own video format in 2020 in partnership with Joe Rogan and has witnessed “a huge spike in consumption” since then, Dey said, with the platform now carrying over half a million video podcasts globally. In Australia, she added, Spotify saw a 60% year-on-year growth in the number of local creators publishing video podcasts, although she did not provide a baseline for the growth.
“Outdated and incomplete”
Commercial Radio Australia (CRA) first launched the Australian Podcast Ranker in 2019, partnering with Triton Digital to publish a monthly rundown of the most popular Australian podcasts based on downloads.
Participation is voluntary, with publishers opting in to have their shows tracked, meaning some hosts, including Acast, do not have all their podcasts represented in the rankings.
Responding to concerns over the ranker’s relevance, a CRA spokesperson told Mumbrella that the chart represents a “single source of truth” as “the country’s only official measurement system.”
“We are also in ongoing discussions with Triton Digital about the needs of the market and are constantly assessing how we deliver the best possible product for publishers and clients. This includes reviewing video podcast measurement for inclusion when we find tested, validated and best practice approaches.
“Video is new and moving fast, requiring measurement to be rigorous and accurate. Podcasting is an incredible industry for consumers and brands. As it evolves, so does our commitment to building the very best third-party verified measurement system that keeps pace with that growth.”
Despite CRA’s assurances, some creators argue the current system still misses key elements of the market. Sonia Jahshan of Simon and Sonia said the ranker fails to reflect the realities of video-first podcasts.
“The ranker only measures downloads and doesn’t factor in video numbers at all,” she said. “A podcast like ours has very strong video performance, but that isn’t reflected in the data. Advertisers are missing significant opportunities if they’re relying solely on a ranker like that.”
She also pointed to Shameless as an example of a creator recognising the shift to video, saying: “They’ve already pivoted — one of the biggest independent media companies in the country — and the change isn’t theoretical.
“On Youtube and Spotify, they’re now publishing full video episodes. The current ranker isn’t capturing the full picture; it’s not measuring what actually matters today, and as a result, it feels outdated and incomplete.”
Keshnee Kemp, founding partner of the newly launched The Karl Stefanovic Show, echoed the sentiment, saying the program was “always going to be a video podcast because the data tells us that’s the way podcasts are going. People want to be able to stream on different platforms, so it was never really a question that we would only do audio.”
She also highlighted the limitations of traditional rankings for video-first podcasts, noting the difficulties she faced in understanding how to properly rank against other Australian shows given their format.
“The trackers only measure audio downloads, so for a podcast focused on video, it doesn’t make sense to be part of [aidio-only] lists,” she said.
“Youtube has always been a big part of our strategy because it’s one of the fastest-growing platforms for our audience, but having a tracker that captures video and aggregates across different platforms is really important for understanding the full impact of a show.”
Keshnee Kemp: The Karl Stefanovic Podcast was “always going to be a video podcast”
Kemp acknowledged that the Triton rankings may still matter to advertisers and sponsors, even if creators themselves are less focused on chart positions.
“I don’t think it’s the most important thing for us as creators,” she said, “but a lot of sponsors look at the lists to understand which platforms will give them the biggest reach. For new podcasts, having a clear metric can help media buyers quickly see the value of a show.”
She added that while engagement and audience sentiment remain her primary focus, “speaking the same language as advertisers — using metrics they understand, like watch time or unique views — is crucial. It helps them see the impact of your content and makes it easier to secure sponsorships, even if you’re not chasing a spot on a traditional audio-only ranking.”
An efficient source
Meanwhile, on the media buying side, Daniel O’Callaghan, head of OOH and audio at PMX ANZ, described the ranker as “fundamental” for identifying podcasts that reach the right audiences by demographic.
“This huge variety of choice necessitates that we have a ranker to allow us to view a large portion of the podcast landscape in one spot, to gauge reach and suitability for clients,” he said.
“It’s much more efficient than filtering through numerous different sources… It can point clients and agencies in the right direction, giving them topline information that can help filter briefs and opportunities.”
O’Callaghan added that the ranker could be even more useful if demographic-level data were published more broadly. “While participating publishers have access to Triton Digital’s Demos+, it is currently not published as part of the ranker. This data would help buyers better understand audiences and make smarter decisions on where to invest.”
He also noted the potential for including video-format podcasts in the future: “It will be interesting to see how the ranker develops, especially considering Apple’s recent announcement on vodcasts and Netflix’s investment in the format. The inclusion of vodcast numbers would be a welcome addition.”
“It’s really important to have a third-party measurement platform that provides greater transparency and clarity in the ecosystem,” said the representative from Spotify, the service who refuses to offer their data to the third-party measurement platform attempting to provide media planners with a source of truth.
Does this not strike anyone else as odd? Clearly this isn’t about transparency for measurement because Spotify isn’t offering to contribute to the industry standard for measurement.
If you’re placing video ads within a vodcast stream, don’t expect that audio-video asset to actually have been seen by many people and have a lasting impact, because anyone “watching” the vodcast actually just had it running in the background while they were doing something else. The only time people are giving their visual attention to a vodcast is when a short-form clip shows up in their social feed.
Your comment “It’s really important to have a third-party measurement platform that provides greater transparency and clarity in the ecosystem,” said the representative from Spotify, the service who refuses to offer their data to the third-party measurement platform attempting to provide media planners with a source of truth.” Is 100% spot on. Spotify bang on saying that the ranker ‘doesn’t capture the full story’ but doesn’t share any numbers or provide transparency on their platform.
I would take the data from the ranker, over anything else.
When a podcaster turns on video or joins the Spotify creators program, Spotify does not share data and completely cuts off the export of audio/video logs data being shared to the Australian Podcast Ranker. As a podcaster and content creator this was one of the main and significant reasons why we decided not to do this when approached by Spotify to upload video as we see incredible value in being in the ranker and not being able to share this data was just acceptable. I bet Shameless would’ve 100% stayed in the ranker if Spotify allowed the sharing of the log data.
Mumbrella should ask Spotify to clarify and correct the real reason why a podcaster like me can’t upload video to Spotify and also be in the ranker.