Media exec defends his men-only drinks club, arguing ‘I would expect to see women in women’s groups’

oh dear me…

As if this wasn’t going to end up on Mumbrella, fellas. Good to see media is attracting the best and the brightest.

Is this a joke?. so a bunch of mates who work in the same industry can’t go out and have a drink together without getting accused of sexism… FFS grow up…

What do you think they are doing at this meetings? Plotting the downfall of womenkind?

More likely they are getting a bit pissed and embellishing on a few stories of days gone by to make themselves look good…

Knowing both Timothy & Adam, both of whom I would count as mentors, I don’t think you could find two more supportive men who actively champion women in media industries….

[Edited under Mumbrella’s comment moderation policy] nothing surprises me. Get you combined heads out of your rear end and do something for building the next generation of ad industry people who see this and go what a !!!!!.

What 12 grown men do in their own time is up to them. This has NO official association with the industry so THEY CAN INVITE WHOEVER THEY WANT. Typical Australian PC BS
Are there any transgender people there??? Maybe they should think about that next time as well.
I agree there is a problem in the industry with men at the top, but is it these guys jobs to be thinking about that every time they go for a drink?!
Great way to drag good peoples names through the mud for an innocent night out of fun.
Honestly wake up

I’d let this one go fellas.
You’re going to get absolutely roasted.
Informal, social and ‘not part of the industry’ isn’t going to help you.
There should be nothing in our industry that excludes either gender.
I actually find B&T’s Women in Media awards rather patronising.
Those that get recognised do so because of their talent and ability not their gender.

Do please define ‘actively championing’ and the demonstrate with an example.

We be waiting.

I happen to work for one of the men involved here – Adam Furness. He couldn’t be more of a supporter of gender diversity – an active proponent and very involved! We need men like Adam doing what he does, to continue to knock down the barriers here.

Just as I enjoy a wine with the girls – surprise, surprise blokes still like to get together and banter. This is set in culture and won’t change and shouldn’t be expected to change.

Let’s spend our time and energy investing in solutions to the big issues – pay disparity, work flexibility etc. and not get thrown off-course by the small stuff. We need these guys on board, not thrown under the bus!

I know a number of these guys, and they are normally supportive of women in the industry, so this does surprise me. As a senior media person, I have been invited to many Gentlemen only events….I have always said no and made it clear why.

just let them do it ffs.

naming and attempting to shame them is disgusting

The best part is his reply to the woman who commented on the post, mansplaining his reasoning and claiming he’s a “HUGE feminist”, while ending his comment with “make sense?”. The condescension is almost too much to bear.

This whole industry needs to get over itself…. who cares what a bunch of mates do, albeit a bit of a wank….. don’t reckon they’ll be backing many winners in lame matching blazers though

“TRUELY”…

Really truly?

Bah!

I am gobsmacked, is this a joke? How is this different to white supremacists saying ‘I have lots of black friends, I just don’t want them in my club’. Can they not see the moral difference between oppressor and oppressed? In political satire, for example, there’s a general rule of thumb where gross inequality exists – you can kick up but you can’t kick down.

The only thing these guys are really guilty of is being knobs. Ad tech boys club strikes again.

So by that logic you are saying that all womens only and all mens only events in media should be stopped (unofficial/official/social etc)?
I think that is pretty ridiculous personally.
Girls as much as guys like having times where they can socialise and talk about the industry with their own gender. Definitely not all the time, but sometimes.

We have become such a nanny state, that we troll content looking for people to beat up. There’s so little freedom any more without venomous vitriol from people who are quite willing to judge but don’t want to be judged. For centuries, even when gathering together, women segregate themselves and chat and men do likewise, standing around a BBQ. Why do we make issues and throw stones?

Search facebook for women’s groups, woman in business, there are thousands of them. I don’t see any males picketing?

Just let some mates get together and have a drink and a chat without the grief. In doing so, they often get sh!t of their chest that makes them happier people to be around.

Where does a gentleman start….

To describe many of our love for our industry, our love for life and the females in our lives both work and socially is as vast as an ocean….

We all have different needs…some are being met, some are not just yet.

I am almost going to stop here, as this topic is of great lament to many men as we strive to be our best and to be supportive of greatness around us.

The old adage that you get more of what you want, by giving others what they want is perennial. Men need men to understand and support each others psyche and emotional processing. Its like AM’s gathering or Studio Managers.

Strong (people) supportive men/women create a culture of supporting others and synthesize thoughts of a segment whether a junior Account Manager or a CEO leading the ship. Our ability to accept the status quo with calmness and remove anger, ugliness or emotion on both side is the only way to make a wise next step.

There is no battle lines except the one’s in our heads or any unconscious self fulfilling narrative and resultant behavior / actions.

Winners make more mistakes…..lets allow each other to make them and stop berating each other as we all strive to be our best.
I hear nothing more but sideline jabs, job industry stats, your gang Vs. our gang instead of any real indepth discussion…..which really is about our internal values.

Lets enlighten each gender, open up each other’s eyes, lets dance not grissel on the side…

Talent, grace, wisdom, patience and leadership generally still rises to the top.

I’m going to the Pub to put some money on SportsBet…Geez those blokes look happy 🙂

G

So Mumbrella will publicly harass people for ‘men only’ events, but will not harass the organisers of events only for Women?

I’ve had enough of Mumbrella and this gender biased crap. You’ll happily support women only events (looking through your search page there is HEAPS) … yet as soon as a few blokes have a guys only event – you go off and make it front page.

Mumbrella = Double standards & hypocritical.

What’s wrong with starting a gentleman’s club, drinking gin, and planning one’s spring racing ensemble in the company of HUGE feminists and champions of gender diversity? Absolutely nothin’. If you’re a putz.

Nice one fellas. Way to prove the media industry is still decades behind.

This does not look good for your agencies, nor for any future employment prospects.

A short search through your articles reveals the very heavy focus on Women only events, platforms or agendas.

https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/australian-womens-weekly-qantas-announce-2017s-women-future-shortlist-463889

https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/priceline-builds-on-100-woman-platform-celebrating-womens-beauty-455529

https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/defence-force-recruiting-shows-women-benefits-joining-army-new-content-series-438926

https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/inaugural-womens-afl-campaign-launches-1994-tagline-id-like-see-421075

https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/100-women-influence-awards-2016-launched-today-371373

I think the difference here is that when you go out for drinks with the girls (which I do as well), you don’t call it an “exclusive club” and post photos about it over Facebook showing just how exclusive it is….

There is a gender diversity issue in media, specifically women are under-represented. These guys have a right to form social groups.

However what they need to understand is these things are symbols with impact that set others back.

Sometimes it is hard to see how this can be harming. Maybe if they made the group The White Gentlemen’s Gin Club, they would more easily see how it might be hurtful to others.

Sorry, did you just compare a bunch of mates getting together for a glass of gin over a suit fitting to the KKK?

That’s fantastic stuff, well done.

As an gender fluid feminist neo-nazi environmentalist with a gluten intolerance, I hope these gentleman had the cultural courage to toast their glasses to marriage equality and acknowledge the traditional land owners of the Glenmore Hotel before indulging in this orgy of gin-fuelled mansplaining.

Bad form guys.

This is not a ‘PC’ issue. This shows poor judgment and for taste. ‘Grown Men’ would not feel the need for a ‘Gentleman’s Gin Club’.

Its clubs like this that contributed to the gender diversity issues the industry is still grappling with. A’Gentleman’s Gin Club’ is not the same as a womens industry group.

There is something to be said about alcohol bringing out the truth!

You know you’re in trouble when the leading industry blog becomes a click bait site.

You’re not even trying to hide it, either.

Clearly a slow news day…

And leave this for some light reading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/30/feminists-treat-men-badly-its-bad-for-feminism/?utm_term=.d4aa052e49a8

Can we talk about the real crime here? Spring carnival blazer fitting party with gin history presentation. Fucking hell.

He always finishes his sentences with ‘make sense’.

Love a bit of ‘read the comments bingo’ on a Tuesday.

I’m going for a full house of the following before we reach 30 comments:

– Outrageous
– White, middle-aged men
– Feminist left
– Mansplaining
– White supremicists
– Oppressed
– Optics
– Political correctness gone mad
– Blazer

Really a bunch of mates being questioned for getting together for a few drinks …If we want to change diversity numbers at a senior level, let’s not be counter productive here and up hold an important aspect which drives that “equality”

Disgraceful and shameful Mumbrella – are you proud of yourselves? You are an absolute joke.

There are plenty of women-only groups such as “Women in Media” drinks that occur regularly. There is no difference to this whatsoever. To “name and shame” the men in this article in this manner is totally unacceptable.

Lets remember the difference between symbols and actions.
If women were equal to men then this would be a non issue. However as women are treated unequally in a male dominated society then we become fixated with symbols like this. Margaret [who commented above] sees this club as a symbol of oppression and who can blame her. But would anyone blame her for wanting to form a club without us blokes in it?
Stuff like this should remind us all that we need to redouble our efforts and to take MORE ACTION in reducing inequality across ALL society. As a man it’s very hard to even notice inequality going on so we do need to show more Empathy and recognise why these symbols may be seen as wrong.

Anyone want to bring back to good old days of meeting at the Tilbury on Fridays after our respective client engagements? I remember a time when we’d all end up there with our respective clients and enjoy a quiet build up to the weekend as a collective. You’d cheers a competitor you sell hard against all week while catching up with your shared client they had just taken to lunch and it was all good times open to all. I’ll be down there at 5pm this Friday if anyone’s up for it – all welcome. Much love to you all! xx

Why can’t a few industry mates go for a drink together… since when do we have to police which gender we drink with? And the irony being we have official all-female events and it’s a non-issue; the same as this. Equality in the workplace is one thing, who anyone, male or female, chooses to drink with is another.

The issue here isn’t that they got together to fit blazers and drink gin, it was when they decided that they wanted to exclude Simone and be condescending. Tims comment saying that he is a feminist because he has a daughter is akin to saying you’re not a racist because you have black friends…

I’m so sick of so-called “feminists”. If you are one, you don’t need to mention it! Instead, you should lead by example and start putting actions where your mouth is. Unfortunately, Australian media are ruled by a bunch of machists and if you wish to stand up for yourself as a women they will crash you. Fact!

This was a catch up between a few well-respected people in our industry who have known each other for years and are very deserving of a fine gin.

Several of these people have presented at the NSW Women in Digital events in 2017 and are widely known to provide above and beyond mentoring to people in our industry.

We should celebrate diversity and gender, not criticize social gatherings between friends.

Cheers boys!

– Eloise Lloyd, Sydney Director for Women in Digital

would this have been such a big ‘story’ if they hadn’t used gentleman in the title? just call it the gin club and get over it…

women get together socially all the time without inviting the men and there’s nothing published in mumbrella about it. i need a 4th golfer for our foursome. better get a woman or we’ll be oppressing people.

To the women defending these tone-deaf “feminists*: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Stockholm-syndrome

Well this is 5 minutes of my life I wont be getting back. Thanks for the ridiculous and mediocre read Mumbrella!
How sad you felt the need to write this? You should be bloody ashamed of yourself for trying portray someone in such negative and untruthful way.

Get your facts right and stop stirring.

Are there any ‘men only’ events? Aside from this…?
Of course men and women will socialise exclusively.
Always have, always will.
The issue here is formalising a ‘no women’ policy.

It’s actually more like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

This is such a non-issue, not even newsworthy.

#adtech(club)Bloodbath

There’s a female-only drinking group called ‘Like Minded Bitches Drinking Wine’ started by ShowPo Founder and Holden Ambassador, Jane Lu.

Why isn’t this getting any negative coverage, Mumbrella?

http://likemindedbitches.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/LMBDW/

Try joining that as a male.

@S “Tims comment saying that he is a feminist because he has a daughter is akin to saying you’re not a racist because you have black friends…”

No it is not!? Tim HAS a daughter. Tim also has female friends and female colleagues, all who know that Tim is in their corner, fighting for their cause. Racist’s are racists, either consciously, by choice or institutionally or ignorantly. Racist’s rarely have any ‘black friends’.

A group of men going for beers together and labelled as such is exactly that and doesn’t exclude women anymore than a women’s group excludes men. If the group was labelled: ‘The Anti Women Gin Society’ – then feel free to harass, however your analogy is way, way off the mark.

Mr Whitfield’s response that it is comparable to a women’s industry group is…
1- Clear indication that he does in fact see his gathering as an industry group and not, as he claims, a few mates having a drink socially!
2- A sign of a symptomatic male-privilege that exists in the industry.

No sir, it does not make sense! 12 senior industry men gathering for a drink, deliberately excluding women, IS NOT the same as a similar group of women doing it because when women do it, it is for the sole purpose of overcoming gender inequality and eradicating sexism. Where as when men (the over-represented group causing the injustice to begin with) do it, it is called “privilege” and is no different than “ethnic privilege”, “religious privilege” or “sexual orientation privilege”.

If you truly wish to be a feminist father, you should read a little on the topic. I recommend any of the freely available academic publications by Routledge on the subject of social bias and male-privilege. [Edited under Mumbrella’s comment moderation policy]

Totally agree with this – simple case of overthinking something when it’s literally just a group of mates having a drink.

see, this here is exactly the type of loony left nonsense that gets most everybody offside and antagonises moderates

‘oppressor and oppressed’ you should be embarrassed

Well said James!

What events are “only for women”? Every recent event celebrating women has invited men. Name one where men are actively excluded. Btw the fact that your toxic masculinity may stop you from buying a ticket does not count as exclusion.

Like that recent study showed, re the bubble that our industry lives in….. reckon some of the people sooking about this need to get some friends outside of the industry and discover that the real world doesn’t give a stuff about this type of nonsense

From a social sciences point of view it actually is the same. I understand that the intent here wad not about “excluding women” but in doing so, these men did cross an ethical line.

What do you actually mean though Taryn? That they’ve used your business, referred you clients, given you advice etc?

Hope it’s more than a business transaction, because that is not an example of championing ‘women in the industry’ at all.

Mumbrella – you continue to prove yourself as the scum of the Advertising ‘news’ providers. Useless click bait articles such as this are the reason people do not consult you for real, in-depth and objective news stories.

Reporting on a social event and spinning it into your own unfounded and biased opinion will only enforce your position as the bottom feeder tabloid that you are becoming.

James you absolutely nailed it on the head. Couldn’t have said it better.

Here here James! Couldn’t have said it better!!

I think I will stick to sake today.

Honestly, this PC BS should be pulled down, shame on Mumbrella for publishing, it’s nothing short of character assassination and borders on defamation.

Totally agree.

Diversity website lacks diversity.

It’s a Facebook group supporting women entrepreneurs. Not a drinking club.

Quentin Crisp said “… you can either be outside peering in the window and feeling isolated, or you can walk on by and create your own world with those want to join you.”

And they are all in the same industry that is trying to change this sort of behaviour. If Whitfield had 12 male mates that did not work for advertising and media – fine. But as so called leaders of this industry, it sends a wrong message to everyone. Surely Group M would not want this publicity nor should it be seen “favouring” certain tech firms.

Who said they can’t? I think forming a ‘Gentleman’s Club’ (in 2017) and hosting the first gathering of the Tone Deaf Brigade is the issue here, not the fact that some men got together to drink gin and talk about what they’re all wearing to the races. Although, that’s deeply concerning, too.

These guys are smart and great to work with and it seems like this was an old school name for guys getting together that got out of hand via social – but drinking at the pub shouldn’t be compared to women’s groups with a purpose.

Lots of us drink with our media friends and you don’t need to invite every man and their dog, but our industry can be very old fashioned and we all have a responsibility to be creative and modernize our thinking, behavior, language and the way we drive our industry forward, rather than falling back on and perpetuating old boys club habits.

And to the guys I know in this group, I know you’ll get through this and keep innovating in our industry.

I think it shows their immaturity in leadership. They may all know tech but it does not mean they know how to conduct themselves as leaders. It probably does highlight the lack of skill in this industry. My advise, if you have the title – try to live up to that standard for yourself, your employers and your industry.

I suspect ‘gentleman clubs’ just like this was an impetus to establishing networking and mentoring initiatives to support women #justsaying

This is the sookiest beat-up I’ve come across among the multitude of sooky beat-ups reported on this site.

As a woman, I think its absolutely necessary for these men to have their own ‘club’ that excludes women. More and more we are seeing just how hard it is to be a man these days, and especially a white man. There are women only, black only, Jews only, etc…. why not men only. Basically, you can’t have a ‘club’ that excludes people different from you, and then cry discrimination when those that you exclude for their own. I applaud their boldness in this and hope they continue to set an example. You can’t yell foul if you’re the ones causing these men to have a need for this type of ‘club’.

What a bunch of self-promoting,show ponies. Matching jackets and Gents Gin Clubs! Should have done what most blokes do – go to the pub, have a drink and go home rather than taking photos of yourself, labeling yourselves a club and creating a media circus. Like you say, keep that for your day job. As for siring a girl making you a feminist or supportive – what a baseless point is that? What does having a son make you? Prance on.

Wonder what tomorrow’s linked in Ad tech tip of the day will be Timothy?

The fact of the matter is despite your intentions – and no one here is actually implying that they were anything other than positive & pure – your actions had a negative impact on your fellow industry colleagues. You’ve risen through the ranks because of your perceived intelligence, now you’re just perceived as fools.

As leaders of your respective companies, you hold a responsibility to your co-workers. As leaders of our industry you’re held responsible by the court of public opinion. As leaders of our industry you have a responsibility to the rest of us to uphold those values you’d promote to your colleagues internally. Unfortunately what we’ve seen here is a bunch of guys who talk about equality and diversity when holding a microphone or sitting in a meeting room.

The counter arguments:
– It was just a bunch of friends having a drink:
Please read the following quotes “Following much debate and consideration the unanimous decision was made to keep the club a max of 12 gents by invite only. We felt with groups like SWIMM and WID that having a ‘male only’ club was appropriate.” – Adam Furness. “This was a Gent’s club by design” – Timothy Whitfield.

– Nanny state, too PC blah blah – this is correct but sadly the guys actually proclaimed to be the “Gentlemen’s Gin Club”. “Problems of the world solved. Check.” The guys involved know this is offensive and condescending, they didn’t get to be leaders of the industry by being idiots. We expect them to lead by example in AND out of the office, but in the Gin Club they’ve led with their appendages.

– They’re actually good guys, I worked with them and they’re not like that: Please read the comment from Timothy where he explains (read: mansplains) to Simone that he’s a feminist because he has a 19 year old daughter and then really drives the condescension home with “Make sense?”
One would hope that Simone got her job as Country Manager of Rubicon with the ability to read & interpret Tim’s year 6 level use of the English language. I can’t see any other reason for the comment not to make sense to her. I believe most of the men pictured really do believe they’re feminists and equal opportunists. Sadly this just demonstrates those who believe so don’t actually understand the actions required to back up that belief.
I believe Trump would call it ‘locker room banter’ – believe me, it’s fine. Don’t worry.

– There are women’s groups, it’s sexist not to have men only groups: read a history book your idiots.

All the businesses in the advertising space have great operating foundations and have incredibly stable profitable businesses right? that’s why we are wasting time debating a bunch of guys having a drink.

Oh Lord! just look at the length of this reply chain; there is nothing like a good old supposed PC infringement to bring out the squawking Cockatoos.

I once applied to join an Italian club, and was told that I could have associate membership, with hardly any rights and privileges; reason? I am not Italian. I would be refused outright for membership of a women’s club, and I can well appreciate why. This storm in a gin glass, regarding a men’s group, is a load of waffle and cheap self righteous grandstanding.

A man who tries to claim that gender inequality is not as bad an issue as race inequality on some made-up scale of morality, is by definition part of the problem, not part of the solution. Yes women around the world are still oppressed. I point to the Women’s March in Washington as the biggest organised march in US history that also became a global movement. We need to acknowledge this is a serious problem before we can make gains in this area. I stand by my point that ‘Just a bunch of blokes fooling around, nothing to see here’ wouldn’t be an acceptable excuse if they were excluding black people, Jewish people, or disabled people from their club, so why is it acceptable in this case?

My wife goes out for “Girls Nights” often. And I’m specifically told that I’m not allowed to go, because “only the girls are going”.

In a social setting, surely this is fine?

It is all about context. If we had equality in the industry, no one would care that ‘a bunch of guys get together and drink gin each month’.

But we don’t. We have a significant gender pay gap, under-representation of women in leadership roles (versus industry workforce participation) and a well-documented issue with living ‘in the bubble’ – it was a topic at M360 this year: https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/adland-vs-average-australian-joe-mumbrella360-video-459449.

The members of this group need to take responsibility for the effect their ‘exclusivity’ has, not just the intent.

I think this calls for a Postal vote…

Could not agree more
The double standard here is too hard to ignore – I will no longer follow or read Mumbrella.

How is it not OK for this Gin club to exist, yet it’s OK for SWIMM and other female only organisations to exist?

I’m done.

Make’s sense. Donald Trump has a daughter too – and he’s one of the world’s biggest feminists!

Clients are watching. And judging.

Well said, TheDonald. Now that makes sense. Doesn’t Timothy?

Men’s mental health is a very serious issue! Over 1.5 million men in Australia have self-reported issues with mental health (in the majority of cases this is depression and anxiety). Suicide is still the largest cause of death for men between the ages of 15 and 45.

Financial, work, family and physical health pressures are the leading factors that impact men’s mental health and it is vitally important that men feel a sense of emotional connection with someone (or a group of people) that they can be open with and “share their burden”.

The unfortunate reality of Australian culture is that a large majority of men are not comfortable opening up about their feelings, and this is particularly true of sharing their feelings with women.

The advertising and media industry is high-pressure, fast-paced and notoriously bad at nurturing it’s people. Instead, we cover up all this stress with booze.

I’m not for one minute suggesting that these guys engaged in deep therapy session together (sounds like they were just planning a fun day at the races); however any group that allows guys to get together, build trusted relationships and open up about the pressures that they might be facing at work with guys who can genuinely empathise with them, should be celebrated… not bashed!

It literally has drinking in the title…

Don’t publish evidence of your astonishing tone deafness on social media platforms. Make sense?

Brownie points allocated, we all want to be part of the group.

Doing good work just isn’t enough anymore, it’s whose ego you stroke the most

+1!

Wow, bit of a beat up, poor form mumbrella.
As someone who would describe myself as a feminist. (I’ve been to the marches, pushed for equal pay where I’ve had the ability to influence it & championed strong women in businesses I have worked in).
This article is bullshit, you can’t link the all of the issues that women face in media (& life in general) with some guys getting blazers made while drinking gin.
I agree Tim’s response came across fairly tone deaf, but to make out that this was some sort of event to opress women by exclusion is nonsense.

And let’s not forget about the poor viewability the ‘Gentlemen’s Gin Club’ produces

Why do people always confuse me for a phallic symbol?

Can someone pass me a gin? 🙁

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-learn-from-negative-feedback-social-media-timothy-whitfield

I don’t feel that this article should play any part in the gender diversity topic, as this was simply an evening out between friends.

Tim is an amazing mentor and I honestly wouldn’t be in the role I am today if it wasn’t for his incredible leadership over the last two years. He does an absolutely sterling job at supporting me and my team, of which 90% are females working in a technical role!

How f*cked is this website. Pathetic to think that these are the straws mumbrella I said grasping at to get attention. Utterly disgusted to see this temper tantrum on a “news” website. The world as of today is way to PC, we have all over corrected ourselves to make sure everyone feels invited and connected. I agree that’s yes it is important to not have discriminations of any kind, however in what sense is this discrimination. This does not breach any standing or previously views of discrimination. This is a place for guys to go and shoot the shlt, no more no less. Fuqing apawled to see this pathetic website degrade such a harmless attempt at fun. So clear that this is the clickbait reaction that they were looking for. Disgusted.

He has a daughter. Make sense?

If by ‘Champion’ you mean get them to fight their fights for them, I absolutely agree.

Very confused. You must either be very thick or very excluded from all of these events to think that what you said means anything. How does this prove anything you [edited under Mumbrella’s comment moderation policy] ?

Have you ever seen oppression?? You’re an upper class high income earner, who’s worst trouble in life was probably deciding what to eat for breakfast. What sort of ethically line did these men cross? That they wanted to hang out, out of work time without women. Nice one sweet heart. Next time don’t make your name intellectually speaking because there I should clearly nothing intellectual about this.

I would write a well thought out response but you’re just [edited under Mumbrella’s comment moderation policy]

This is exactly why this is important. Women’s groups exist to close the gender gap. We don’t need “men’s groups” because they already exist. Just take a look at board level participation across our industry (and all others, really) to see that this is the case.

Mate, I feel ya.

A quick and genuine question.

Are men allowed to join Women in Digital or MEAA’s Women in Media?

Our dear friends at Mumbrella bully and shame. You really are a repugnant bunch of haters.

i vote yes

Donald Trump also has a daughter, 2 in fact.

By Tim’s reckoning, he should have used that defence when the “bus recording” came out.

Huge feminist !!!!

“How can I hate women? My mum’s one”

You obviously haven’t seen Tim’s LinkedIn Steve

I blame my man-boobs on Fernwood’s strict policies, but you don’t hear me complaining on their facebook page!

“mansplaining”
maybe you couod stop c!ntsplaining every time you and your misandry sisters talk about why you need female-only spaces? Because the gin club doesn’t owe you jack when it’s 12 guys having a drink alone, in a social setting, not related to work – yes, they all being from the same type of industry means sfa, because it is not business related. It’s called freedom of association, a right that is granted to australian citizens. It’s meaning is simple: I can associate with whom I want and that is not illegal.
Get. Over. It.

Your Club was only the start of it
One Facebook post and now your part of it
Now you’ve done it
Gin has fixed it for you
And you and you…

In regards to Women in Digital – Yes, our presenters and attendees are incredibly diverse. Adam, Imran, Pete and Tim have all supported WID this year.

Hit the nail on the head.

I’ve just finished my 3rd bag of popcorn and needing a 4th to get through the rest of these comments.

Also, gin anyone?

Yes and it’s still a Facebook group

How is this Mumbrella’s fault?

We either recognise that the industry has a problem, after all, we are talking about industry ‘leaders’ or we pretend there’s nothing to see here and blame Mumbrella for pointing it out.

Either way we’re screwed!

Huh? Aside from this all having zero to do with mental health…creating spaces or groups just for men because they don’t feel comfortable talking about mental health doesn’t resolve the toxic masculinity that can create those feelings of shame or guilt in the first place. Oh and I’m pretty sure gin is booze!?

The first rule of The Gin Club is: You do not talk about The Gin Club.
The second rule of The Gin Club is: You DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE GIN CLUB!
The third rule of The Gin Club is no posting on social media you muppets

How’d these peeps get to be leading lights without the basics of understanding audience, reputation, good copy, placement etc? It’s all a bit tone dead and Mad Men. The days of group suit-fittings, chums and wheeling in a women to cover diversity are over surely? They look out of touch. And not very skilled.

A bunch of friends who regularly catch up for a drink, and!

How is that any different to Simon and Karen’s all girl media group – Wolf Pack. They also regularly catch up, travel together and have even tattoos? Please explain?

Come on girls grow up and concerntrate on more important things in life.

What would Tim’s Nan say; “Does this post qualify for LinkedIn Influencer points?”

I am going to start a short, old, fat blokes drinking group. Women welcome.

I saw the original invite and can confirm that the blazer scenario was indeed apart of the original club agenda and not a cover up post public shaming.

Not defending it, still a total pack of [edited under Mumbrella’s comment moderation policy].

Want me to hold off on the jackets fellas?

Sounds like a lame club.

“As a man”

I call BS

Hi Jodie,

I’ve worked under Adam and I agree that he is a great guy that wouldn’t ever intentionally do something to upset women in the industry. That being said, these guys clearly need to do a bit of self-reflection and understand that they come from a position of privilege. Trying to justify the need for a men’s “club” in the media industry (even if it is informal) is like trying to justify the need for a ‘white lives matter movement’ or ‘straight pride parade’.

Saying that it’s not worth focusing on this kind of thing because it’s set in culture and won’t change is problematic. You should read Alex Haye’s article on the matter – it is a problem and this kind of thing should change.

Hi Mumbrella and everyone commenting.

I am one of the people who was there on the night, and these are the facts:

The organiser reached out to the people who attended and said “let’s meet for some drinks after work on this date”
Attendees said “Great idea”
Organiser then updated everyone and said “Gonna bring a gin specialist”
Organiser sent a further update saying “Gonna bring a tailor to see if anyone wants something for Spring Carnival”
Attendees said “Sounds like fun”
The group met up, had gin, got measured and chatted about whatever they wanted to. No lewd remarks or anything bad, just about how things were going in general, how our families were, and maybe some Game of Thrones.
Everyone left.

The mistake that was made was the organiser then posted it on social media as something it wasn’t. The second mistake was that we didn’t correct him and then there was some social media banter. We should have corrected him but we didn’t. That was our bad, and pretty naïve. The responses to the banter were also incredibly naïve.

Today I spoke to one of the people who attended and, ironically, at the time I called, he was meeting with a woman in our industry to mentor her. Another Irony – I met with a female member of staff this morning to discuss how we would get her promoted into a senior management position over the next few months. Not because she is a woman, but because she is good at her job and has earned it.

So, those are the facts. Tim – I’d go on record but I know how tabloid hacks operate and it wouldn’t be a good idea. To all of the people who have been offended – I apologise that we didn’t frame it as something that it actually was, but I don’t apologise for meeting some friends for an after work drink. And it sure as hell wouldn’t be appropriate for me to ask if there were women going. My partner would kill me if she found out I asked that.

It would be indefensible if this were actually an industry group, but that wasn’t the case at all. It was just some friends having a few drinks and then it got stupidly labelled as something it wasn’t.

Tim – it would be great if you moved this to the top of the comments so people who read the article can see the facts.

Zeus1: will there be an over 40s discount?

As long as they aren’t making patriarchal glass ceiling decisions at these meetings

Gentleman, make sure you don’t put a stop to this club! Enjoy a good drink and a fun catch up between friends. If I was a gin fan I’d ask for an invitation 🙂

Let’s chat tomorrow. Man to man.

This would have been the best club in the world. Fake news Mumbrella is just jealous. Sad!

Thanks!
It’s the same argument for/against tearing down historical statues for their racial significance. Much rather we did more to address discrimination and right the wrongs of the past than tear down grand old monuments.

Well said

Finally! It says everything you need to know about these Gents

Nothing to see here. They were just being fitted for bespoke blazers for the racing season while being entertained by a private gin tasting. The excluding women part was simply a bonus.

Completely unrelated question…

Does anyone have any theories as to why the general population find advertising people lacking in integrity and out of touch with the lives of our target audiences?

I found a USB in the projector at the Glenmore and it contained some strange content … not sure if it’s relevant:

Slide 1
Welcome to the first (of many) Gentlemen’s Gin Club gatherings!

Slide 2 – The rules
1. No women
Why no women?
– Because monogrammed blazers don’t suit them
– Could they ever understand gin (rhetorical)?
2. Don’t post anything about this on Facebook – those Mumbrella bastards would have a field day 🙂 !
3. If anyone asks, this was just a run-of-the mill group blazer fitting.

Slide 3 – The history of gin
The earliest we begin to see any juniper based distillates is in 13th century Flanders (present day Dutch speaking northern Belgium) with a spirit accurately named Jenever.

Slide 4 – The history of gin con’t …
Flanders was an influential province during the Middle Ages with the city of Bruges playing a central role in the culture and trade of the region. Jenever during these early periods was more a juniper infused brandy than the herbal distillate we associate today.

Slide 5 – The history of gin con’t …
With evidence of distillation practiced as early as 450 BCE, the Dutch became the masters of the process in central Europe since the 1100s where it was employed as a method of saving money on the exportation of wine.

I have more but it continues in that same vein … could it be legit?

I concur, and as I am allergic to juniper berries and once got hit on the head with a club, if they could just lose the word gin and club… that would be just swell and far less hurtful to us minorities. Thanks, take care and have a very bland day

You obviously have no idea how tabloid hacks operate. Your comments are anonymous and no more or less valuable than any others here. If you want to get your comments higher, contribute earlier. Does your wife know you’re on the internet tonight?

Lol, triggered were you Davey? Have a cry you nobody.

F’ing puke boys! WTF were you thinking?!

Thug it out

Well said Tim!

I am a big fan of Gin. Up for a laugh and can shout a round.

Even though I know a number of these gentlemen, I’m just bummed that their ultimate preference is to point blank refuse to share a drink with me because my genitalia doesn’t match.

Why are we concerned about equality and privilege when it concerns jobs that only rich upper-middle class white women contend for?

We need more women in steel mills, coal mines, sewage, sanitation, construction, roofing and water reclamation.

Why would your partner (presumably female) be upset if you asked about women attending? I find this odd. She knows you work with them every day right? That you see them on the street, in shops and cafes etc.

If women are present is your default position that something untoward is going on? Because that’s pretty insulting and arrogant if so.

How about ask if women are attending so as to be sure your actions are not disadvantageous to your female colleagues. How would that be a problem for your relationship?

Thankfully no one from Dentsu was ignorent enough to be caught up in this. It’s one of the hottest topics and agendas in our business and for good reason too.

Is it at all possible that Ad Tech is populated mostly by nerdly types and girls are very scary to us?

WTF? If this counts as news these days, we as a civilisation are doomed.

I’m a guy Davey, and already, the fact that you assume everyone annoyed by this is a “misandry sister” speaks volumes for the type of person you are. I doubt that you’ll understand this, but the basic reason that it is different to female only spaces is because females are the oppressed gender, while males are the oppressors. Think black panthers compared to white pride. Not to mention the concept of a Gentlemen’s club was built on aristocratic elitism and the exclusion of women in a time where they were considered to be pretty much baby farms and housewives.

To be honest that just makes me cringe even more.

Good Lord I am so sick of Man Hating Women, What is wrong with Men’s Clubs don’t you idiots understand men need to get together and talk about Men Stuff!!!
Ladies if you want to compete with the blokes here’s a big tip, work hard, and stop whinging about things not being fair.

and more men as nannies, EAs, nurses, working in retail

I’ve had drinks with a couple of these men at industry events and private parties, rounds have been bought, fun was had and never was I made to feel excluded because of my genitalia as you so ridiculously put it.
I also go out with my girl friends regularly, do I go around asking if any men are going, no because that would make me f*cking sad.
This wasn’t an industry event it was mates catching up for drinks.
You need to pull your head out of your arse and that goes for you too Ricki!

Maybe after a ridiculous flurry of self inflated egos commenting, I would simply pose a great line from a lady jockey who won a Melbourne Cup, to make the point about discrimination between male jocks and female and who is stronger and better physically equipped to ride over 2 miles. Michelle Payne told the world after winning “you can all go and get stuffed”. That comment in racing changed the perception in a male dominated business worth billions!!!. Go Michelle

It needs to be said that the “Women In …” events are not Women ONLY, they openly invite and encourage men to attend. These events are inclusionary and are about changing the gender bias and there is normally a good representation from men at each event.

Perpetuating an exclusionary practice and the concept of a ‘male senior exec club’ with the excuse it is in reaction to the Women In events shows how ignorant and out of touch these men are.

Well you seem nice and you’re obviously a “cool girl” (you’re not like those other girls right?) but there’s about 100 points flying over your head and your little rant doesn’t address any of them.

I hear you, but your argument is flawed. Does the women’s only gymnasium exclude Black, Jewish or disabled people? what about the country women’s institute? are they exclusively white European stock?

The men’s gin group would have to be named “The white Anglo Saxon christian gentleman’s gin group” to fit the terms of your argument.

Andrew Howie and the MLA must be loving these muppets as its taken the focus away from the drivel they launched this week.

To be fair there is no discrimination of gender between jockeys…… it was a complete fluke and she hardly ever even gets a ride, because she is below par, nothing to do with gender…. and there are far better female jockeys…. just another gender myth

well said Mr G

Tony Abbot has daughters. I hardly think he’s next in line for the Nobel Prize for Women’s Advancement, do you?

It takes more than emitting a random XX sperm to make a feminist out of someone. Man or woman, if it comes to that.

Bahahaha. I’ve just polished off my third gin! Don’t tell the Gentleman’s Club!

Why is it that every minority group on the planet can have exclusive fitness clubs, book clubs, executive clubs, mardi gras, campaigns, movements and missions, yet a bunch of mates organising a drink together is viewed as anti-diversity, discriminatory, disgusting.

There is a time and place for everything, political correctness should not be an excuse for mindless irrationality.

Rock on the Gentleman’s Gin Club

My little rant addressed the fact someone thinks they don’t get invited for drinks because of their genitalia which is both ridiculous & untrue. Your rants and snarky remarks do nothing but sling mud at men you don’t know and make assumptions that aren’t true. It’s ok for men to want to socialise with just men it’s normal! As it is for women. Again this wasn’t an industry event this was a group of friends getting together for drinks, which has absolutely f*ck all to do with anyone else.

Never been to a buck’s party? How about a hen’s night then? Lighten up.

Pats on the back to all the men who are commenting that there isn’t a problem with this. Well done!

Not really, I am a guy in the industry and I am quite often invited to the Wolf Pack. It is an ex-sensis gathering of former colleagues dating back to 2006.. and does include people from all industries.. and is not a called a club where they talk about work and solve the world’s problems. By the way I don’t think Simone instigated any of this, it was a light-hearted post that got picked up.

I “believe in diversity”, but do I support it (and importantly, equality) through my words and actions?

After reading 50 odd comments all I can think of is “wow it is amazing what lengths people will go to to get offended”.

I wonder if anyone has considered that maybe the purpose of having a men only social club is to simply avoid having to worry about everything you say or do be taken as some kind of affront or symbol. Case in point – there are two ways “I’m a huge feminist, I have a 19 year old daughter” can be interpreted 1) “As a father of a daughter I have seen the struggles a young woman has and it is important to me to see equality for her” and 2) “I’m using my daughter as an excuse to brush you off”
No one, even the defenders of the club thought it possible that it might be number 1.
It must be hard to live in a world where nothing is down to individual worth – if I’m a man then you couldn’t possibly have earnt your position it, you are only there because of the system; if I’m a women then everything that happens to me is because the system is against me. I can see someone wanting to get away from that level of victim complex for a short while – even if it is by being an idiot sipping gin and buying sports jackets.

Haha… back in the days we called this sausage fest. Would prefer a drink with ladies anytime 😛
But seriously, this has been blown out of proportion. What’s next? Anyone will take photos of guys that are out without women and attack them online?
Gender inequality fair enough, but where do articles like this one help…

Talk about an ad tech blood bath!

I expect some mergers and acquisitions off the back of this.
Perhaps the Gin Club will merge with the Juice Club and form the ad tech powerhouse that will become known as the Gin and Juice Club.

GroupM with a small stake in said club of course.

Yeaahhh the boyzzz

Can we all just be happy gentlemen of colour are represented #amirite

So sad. A few guys have a drink together and a group of knobs try to get them in trouble. Every time I see girls on a girls night out I’m gonna kick up a big fuss now.

I work in the media industry and I’ve been to plenty of women in leadership seminars, training sessions and support groups, these directly affect my work and career, they are during work hours and they exclusively exclude men! I don’t ever hear the men complain about theses otherwise they wouldn’t be able to continue. A little gin club in a social setting and it gets its own Mumbrella article. Really!? To have true equality we need to all behave like equals, not take all the privileges yet bitch and whine when it doesn’t suit.

That’s what you get for bragging. As if being a LinkedIn Influencer wasn’t enough, you had to take a step further.

Fernwood fitness centres.

That is all.

But they aren’t a group of men going for beers together. They’re a group of industry men who said they were setting up a mens group where they would have industry speakers attend and talk about industry issues, but no women from the industry please.

And they are drinking gin and calling themselves gentlemen. Like they know the definition of the word.

Gin is a depressive. Your argument is flawed.

Not sure which Sweden tim was living in but having spent some time there very recently I couldn’t disagree more. They have massive diversity and divide issues culturally and ethinicaly so it’s just rubbish to say “I lived in Sweden”. They themselves drew back on women’s clubs and nights thereby directly connecting the industry with their gin club. Agree with comments above, as men in positions of privilege they should know a hell of a lot better than to be so reckless with their comments on social media platforms… “I’d invite you to come and Present to us” can you get anymore patronising ???? This is what happens when you promote silky smooth salesmen to the top of the ladder…

If we are genuinely striving for gender equality, why don’t we start with schools? At an age when boys and girls are finding their place in society, we are teaching them at a young age that boys and girls should be separated in a classroom because they are different. If every school was co-ed, it would help males and females work and socialise together from an early age and encourage equality.

Geezus! What has happened to this industry? What has happened to journalism? It’s things like this that make you wish the Internet just shriveled up and died so we can all get on with our ‘Normal’ lives instead of being a public noticeboard for creating division.

Poor buggers, can’t even go for a drink and talk about the industry they work in, an industry, like all of us are extremely passionate about without criticism that they are plotting some gender based takeover of the world.

I challenge ANY agency leader to walk down to their IT department and blacklist access this site on their internal network until further notice to show support that they will not tolerate this muckraking and sensationalist BS against their staff and industry.

Number 1 still poses a problem. If a man can’t see or listen to women as human beings without needing an emotional entry point by looking at their immediate family members, then that is sexism.

These guys are supposed to be educated and responsible senior managers in leadership roles.

Shines a light on who they really are….

Hearing you re Tony Abbott @anon1 that is a very good analogy. The person in question though has many women speaking up for him saying how great he is at backing their cause and helping to promote their interests as women. (For the record I do not know these guys, however the responses from a lot of their female colleagues does not seem to paint a picture that they are sexists…)

@Facts Plz wrote: ‘But they aren’t a group of men going for beers together.’
– But yes they are? They are a group of men, who have became friends from working together and catch up at the pub for a yarn.

I play football for a men’s only football team and we will often go to the pub after a game or after training for a beer. If my wife thought that women were attending our pub drinks I am not sure how happy she would be with that, unless they were partners of my team mates.

I truly believe that this has been blown out of proportion. Now the response to the woman on social media has fanned the flames and was the nail in the coffin here for the guys. Again, I just look at how many people live their lives. I know many girlfriends who will go out for drinks and do not have men attend. Just like men do, without women.

In short:
The handling of the question on social media has blown this one up, not the intent of going out for drinks with some mates.

Judging by the number of comments this article has attracted it would appear the industry is more interested in diversity than it is in great work

Why can’t it be both? I’ve been raised as a feminist by my step mother from an early age, but having a daughter gave me even more insight and understanding of the challenges faced by young girls and women.

And are you honestly suggesting that if someone changed their point of view because of something like having a daughter that you wouldn’t be happy with that? Would you rather someone’s ideas and views remained static? Perhaps because that makes them easier to label?

Equality goes both ways and only really works when people try to understand, and not just judge, each other.

We have almost 200 comments on this article. The notion of the Men’s Club is clearly an issue which bothers a lot of people. Let’s not minimalize things which matter deeply to others because you disagree. And calling these industry leaders “girls” (a loaded word which infantilizes women) in this context? Wow. Congratulations on being the bigger person.

I am not racist. I have a black person in my office. And i have been to Bali.

you are explaining why having a daughter made you think more about the challenges women face everyday. that is great.

Tim said that because he has a daughter he is a huge feminist. (and i am from Sweden…almost as irrelevant as the first sentence) Some might say that’s out of context(full comment was published though – makes sense…) and some might say its perfectly in context.

Agree – and it’s rubbish stirred up like this which is why Trump won…

90% female?

It’s funny how no-one gets their knickers in a knot when they hear a stat like that and demand a more equal representation

I’ve worked for Adam and I can assure you he champions diversity. I still have the rubber wrist band with that very word on it.

1) Alex, you wrote ‘there is already a men’s club- it’s called the board room’.
Please think about stigmatisation and what you said there. Seriously!
2) The whole movement around ‘men are privileged because they are men’ is bit too easy and naive (it’s a form of discrimination too). It sounds like no man had to work to get a senior role. There is inequality, but that doesnt mean it was an easy game for all senior males managers either. I wish people would be more sensible here.
3) Let’s talk about symbolism – a sad fact is that you and many others try to make such images of guys a symbol for inequality. Sad – no picture of males from same industry possible anymore.
Consider the following: imagine the guys would have met, had their drinks and that’s it. Imagine there would have been no photo, no snapshot of private comments etc. Would you have reported about a bunch of media guys going out?
NO – but because there is a picture, you try to link it to award and media events pictures which have been used by Cindy G and others to demonstrate gender inequality.
NO – because the meeting alone -who cares about the name, club or not club – would not have been enough. It’s this stigmatised guy picture and some unfortunate comments that gave you the material to have a go at the guys.
But what did you achieve? Do you really think this will change things? Do you really think the guys met to discuss how they can proceed and further keep women away from top-level roles? Please think about the meeting beyond stupid self-created symbolism – do you really think these guys had bad intentions?
Well, in my view all you guys at Mumbrella achieved was throwing some dirt at some fine people and getting lots of short-term attention for Mumbrella. I hope it was worth it. Because you had to go very low to achieve this. And I am sure you haven’t made friends with this action… good luck getting trust and first hand information from the (only 80%) male senior execs in the future mate

I think the argument is about being inclusive and diversity can lead to better work.

Trump supporters.

So this is what an industry that’s supposed to feature the best, brightest and most free thinking creative types has come to?
A trade media website that takes pleasure in running beat-up stories on the industry to drive click-bait and (literally) hundreds of rubberneckers who play along being complicit in the whole scam. Confected outrage, mindless posturing, virtue-signalling and sarcasm in abundance. What kind of doubt and self-loathing lies at the root of all this bile and idiocy?
This is ‘gotcha’ (I refuse to use the word ‘journalism’) pure and simple, and designed to appeal to the basest and nastiest of impulses: jealousy, bigotry, sanctimoniousness, schadenfreude and group-think. It says it all that it was The Mail Online that picked it up and took it to the ‘mainstream.’

Not surprised one bit at Burrows. But would have expected more of Paul Wallbank.

Maybe so, but it’s an editorial decision to run it.

I don’t think that the opponents of this event go far enough. There should be a law against more than two men gathering at the same place immediately.

And that includes those taxpayer funded Men’s Sheds for old coots.

To entertain this he said she said drivel, you’d think you were on the daily mail or something.

Glad the comments are overwhelmingly rational and shows how the industry is not suffering from the same drama the article claims to create.

Women are underrepresented in the media industry? What a load of crap!

Girls are much more proficient readers than boys. Most libraries and reading related advertising is dominated by pictures of girls. Nobody is complaining about that – and it takes someone like Dick Tracy to point that out. It’s got nothing to do with diversity.

This article reinforced to me just how sexist Australia has become. I’m appalled at how bad things are.

Message from the article? Women’s clubs are totally fine, men’s are not.

“..Whitfield argued in the Facebook post that he was a “huge feminist” because he has a daughter..”.

I had a green smoothie for breakfast this morning, guess that makes me a vegan..?

Wearing a rubber wrist band is not going to create change of any magnitude. It has no value beyond corny symbolism.

How deals are made at a modern agency holding group. All about back scratching, not about clients results. Wake up clients!

How can this be OK?
http://www.bandt.com.au/market.....-melbourne

Ironically, if this was a women’s only networking event/ drinks gathering, which to say does happen in Sydney a lot for this industry. No one would question this. Nor would this end up on a Mumbrella article. As a feminist I actually think its been around 80% of the time when a male colleague has recognised my skilled set and given me opportunities to advance my career. In fact its actually been women to criticize and stand in the way for career progression. I have no problem with a group of men having drinks. Time for better journalism.

They should have called it the strippers and coke club. Then no one would have had an issue

Well said

We can debate the semantics of this club all day.
Viewed in isolation as ‘a few blokes having a drink while talking about work,’ it’s easy to write it off as harmless.
That becomes exponentially more difficult to do when you consider it’s within an industry where this is still happening:

https://staging.mumbrella.com.au/sexual-harassment-it-still-a-major-issue-for-the-australian-ad-industry-462832#comm

Couldn’t agree more.

will just leave this here
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyl.....z1ioz.html

How about “The Wing” and the Coco Club you idiot?
Now ..Google Men’s only..NOW google Women’s only..
Get the picture Skippy? It is framed with a DOUBLE STANDARD!